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 [5/30] Useful non-gara resources

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Suguri
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PostSubject: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Thu May 31, 2012 4:19 am

As the title says, this is a compilation of all the things available outside of (Rt) garapon that are still meta-relevant. I'll start by listing weapons/cores, then maybe give some examples for how to utilize weapons in builds - without the use of any (again, Rt) garapon parts.

I'm also limiting myself to only things I'd consider tournament viable. There are other functional builds that I won't go over, but that doesn't mean they don't exist (Reaper Scythe ZSG is probably the main one whose absence will get commented on; I'm sure Saggi I and various oldschool hoppers will be complained about too). If you feel there's something missing, let me know.

Anywho:

--Weapons--
Plasma Gun
Beam Shooter Mod
Stardust Cannon
Ballistic Launcher
Linear Cannon
Structure Breaker
Large Bazooka
Phenom Magnet Gun
Chain Vulcan
Gravity Gun
Eight Vulcan
Delta Vulcan
Handy Bazooka
Bazooka
Reaper Scythe

--Cores--
-Small-
LND
Lazflamme
Pawnger
Zero Saber

ART
Psycho Formula
Mechled

AIR
Seraph Crimrose

SUP
Tarantulic

-Medium-
LND
Accel Saber

ART
Hoverion
Amateus
Victory 1

AIR
Izuna Kamui Nagi
Mecha Jetter

SUP
Bugsycait

-Large-
LND
Blazed Baron
Hound Dog
Red Squealer

ART
Victorl I-SR
Destructor
Destructor CN
King Megaton

AIR
Aquila

SUP
Pulsardio




Justifications and analysis:

Plasma Gun
-High DPS and stun rate, large ammo supply
-Ideal tunes: G.Rapid + G.Rapid + Para
-Drops airs with 16 tgh or less, wrecks LNDs
-Erratic spread usually requires that you get close, about the same effective range as dbmg; Seraph or Accele Roll Butterflea/Mecha Jetter are the best (and kind of the only) options.

Example builds:
Seraph Crimrose:
 

Beam Shooter Mod
-Higher DPS than Plasma Gun (despite lower force; projectile size causes backhits more easily maybe?)
-Lower stun rate than Plasma Gun, but less cost and more range/accuracy
-Worse at air-to-air, but solid air-to-ground
-Quite effective while hopping
-Ideal tunes: h.force + g.rapid + (h.shooter/h.airforce)
-Fits interchangeably with Plasma Gun; favor hop over float dash for non-Seraph users

Example builds:
Izuna Kamui Nagi:
 

Stardust Cannon
-Very well-rounded weapon with a high stun rate (as good as or better than Plasma Gun)
-Only non-gara weapon worth using on L-Air
-Should be tuned for G.Rapid Beta + Para
-If 3s put G.Rapid Beta or G.Force Beta in slot 3

Example builds:
Aquila:
 

Ballistic Launcher
-Extremely accurate, high damage and stun rate vs AIRs even without high tech
-High cost; requires a high-capa core to utilize effectively
-Ideal tunes: x2 G.Rapid Beta + [Para/G.Force Beta/G.Rapid Beta]
-Note that it's strictly an anti-air weapon; homing is worse against grounded targets, and its 80% blast damage component means blast guard lowers its damage significantly

Example builds:
Hoverion:
 

Linear Cannon
-Very high damage output; full-tuned builds can break 130 on airs
-Can technically function without weapon tunes: fill slots with G.Force Beta as available (x1 para optional); obviously shop-only builds will only be working with one slot.
-Combos very well with Victory 1 due to core blast bazookas/long range unit, low cost, and broad radar

Example builds:
Victory 1:
 

Structure Breaker
-Gradually losing its role to power creep, but still hits incredibly hard (and is probably the only thing worth using on S-Art that isn't gara)
-Tune with G.Force Alpha
-While its listed range is long, the thin bullet and low ammo count mean it should be used at closer ranges and/or against predictable targets, to minimize missed shots
-Can feasibly break 100 damage and spinstun even on non-airs
-Use with a Handy Magnum/Hand Gun/Beam Gun for farming more ammo

Example builds:
Psycho Formula:
 

Large Bazooka
-Powerful, high stun, large shell size, good stats all-around
-Best L-SUP weapon period, fantastic option for any L-ART
-Tunes: (any two speed tunes) + (any speed/force/para tune)

Example builds:
Victorl I-SR:
 

Pulsardio (NOTE: Partial build):
 

King Megaton:
 

Phenom Magnet Gun
-Useful weapon for Burst Fire support, as the homing isn't worsened by Disorder.
-Fairly good force and ammo duration, long effective range
-Typically used for gara-centric builds though...might not be as effective with non-gara support selection.
-Tune for para

Example builds:
Spoiler:
 

Chain Vulcan
(***DISCLAIMER*** Haven't personally messed with this weapon yet, but I have a hard time believing it wouldn't perform well, especially considering the performance of the other two vulcans and SUP's access to Gravity Gun)
-Very high DPS
-More longevity than Eight/Delta Vulcan due to single shot
-SUP usable; combos well with Gravity Gun
-Tune: H.Force Alpha

Example builds:
Spoiler:
 

Gravity Gun
-General-use weapon for M/L-SUP for debuffing incoming targets
-Fantastic for crippling rushing opponents, particularly melees
-Movement-limited opponents are prime targets for otherwise range-limited weapons, such as Chain Vulcan

Example builds:
Spoiler:
 

Eight Vulcan
-Go-to weapon for L-LND (and the only reason to use that bot type for non-gara builds)
-Very high DPS, more range than other vulcans
-Optimal tunes: Force + G.Range + Para

Example builds:
Spoiler:
 

Delta Vulcan
-Absurdly high DPS; literally capable of outdamaging cost in mere seconds
-Short range and a shorter ammo supply make it very difficult to use effectively
-Only available 1s from shop: I'd recommend G.Force Alpha (note: 2s/3s versions can be lotto'd and sold in bazaar, you're on your own for tunes there but I'd stick with the g.force/h.force alpha tree)

Example builds:
Accel Saber:
 

Reaper Scythe
-Powerful melee, hits crowds with ease.
-Low INT makes it highly spammable.
-Combo into it for best results.

Example builds:
Zero Saber:
 



Later things to add (if I'm not too lazy):
-Example builds for each weapon
-Analysis of some more unique bots (i.e. Seraph, Victorl I-SR) or how to utilize cores that were usually dismissed due to certain flaws (Aquila, Victory 1)
-Laz/Pawnger/Handy Bazooka/Bazooka


Last edited by Suguri on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:39 am; edited 7 times in total
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ziix
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Thu May 31, 2012 4:33 am

No Laz or Pwngurr? Oh right no piercegun ; _ ;

Nice guide btw.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Thu May 31, 2012 5:10 am

@ziix wrote:
No Laz or Pwngurr? Oh right no piercegun ; _ ;

Nice guide btw.
I was kinda debating on them. Ended up adding them just now along with Handy Baz + Baz. I've kinda lost my faith in baz hops these days but I'm told they're still good, and I can't really argue with the logic so w/e.

Added in a couple example builds for Structure Breaker, BSM (this one needs touching up; I'll do it tomorrow), and SDC.

And thanks V:

EDIT: Added a Victorl L-Baz build.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:07 am

UPDATE:
-Added several more builds (Plasma Gun Seraph, Delta Vulcan Accel Saber, L-Baz Pulsardio, Ballistic Launcher Hoverion)
-Removed Butterflea A from Recommended S-AIR cores, added Izuna Kamui Nagi to Recommended M-AIR cores; they fill the same roles, but Nagi doesn't cost Rt, has higher HP, and has core Vanish Jump.

I think I might remove Phenom Magnet Gun next update; like I already said in the main post, most of what JP uses it on is gara builds anyway.

Will add Bazooka and Handy Bazooka next update, with Laz/Pawnger builds for Handy Bazooka, and Accel Saber/Bugsycait builds for Bazooka.

Remaining weapons I'll probably go in order based on request, though I'll be posting a Gravity Gun build next, and then probably something with Amateus. After that I'll start the core analysis whenever I feel like it.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:05 am

@Suguri wrote:
-Removed Butterflea A from Recommended S-AIR cores, added Izuna Kamui Nagi to Recommended M-AIR cores; they fill the same roles, but Nagi doesn't cost Rt, has higher HP, and has core Vanish Jump.
izuna costs more though, only has 46 more hp with all carts, and she's fatter in general. also not everyone feels the need for stovl so some could feel like it adds unnecessary cost

Also butterflea has brdar and tough wonder bit, izuna doesn't.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:10 am

@Malphes wrote:
@Suguri wrote:
-Removed Butterflea A from Recommended S-AIR cores, added Izuna Kamui Nagi to Recommended M-AIR cores; they fill the same roles, but Nagi doesn't cost Rt, has higher HP, and has core Vanish Jump.
izuna costs more though, only has 46 more hp with all carts, and she's fatter in general. also not everyone feels the need for stovl so some could feel like it adds unnecessary cost

Also butterflea has brdar and tough wonder bit, izuna doesn't.
46 HP for 40 higher cost and a free core subwep, I'll take it.

Tough Wonder's not terribly great considering the only high-value bit AIR has is prop bit, and they're going to die in one hit anyway. Broad's neat but expensive, and flea's capa isn't exactly good.

It's an okay core, but compared to the accessibility and perks of Nagi I wouldn't recommend 50 Rt just to get it.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:17 am

How about Brickgale BD (red?)
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:47 am

@Hyoka wrote:
How about Brickgale BD (red?)
If you really want a broad radar S-Air that'd be the way to go.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:48 pm

Requesting normal Shino add

she fits so much shit
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:51 pm

Shino is nice but the only weapon I'd even want to use on her is 8-Vulcan, which I'd rather use Red Squealer/Hound Dog for
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:52 pm

shino is fat
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:01 pm

That's an awesome Victory 1 example build #em3
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:21 pm

@tehprognoob wrote:
Requesting normal Shino add

she fits so much shit
What Trill said, Shino's outclassed. Hound Dog has better carts and lower cost; Red Squealer has more utility via Cart Step; Blazed Baron has better stats/capa and more slots to work with.

Which is another major issue with Shino; no fucking slots. She's got Stun Regain over Baron (and Squealer?), but that's about it. And Sword Guard's just as valuable (if not moreso) on hoppers these days to me.

Astral_Goddess wrote:
That's an awesome Victory 1 example build #em3
:effort:

I made one yesterday but I didn't add it due to breakpoint issues. There's already a bunch of 40/25 builds in Xid's thread anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:29 pm

Feel free to swipe info from my Pulsardio guide when you get around to writing about my fave bot! Wink
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:34 pm

I like it.

I won't be nitpicky about it, but why didn't you add Mini Bazooka? I know every Air and her mother has a gatling these days, but I still like the Mini Baz for pure damage and antiair. I have trouble aiming a gatling at airborne targets for some reason.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:52 pm

@FireKiller87 wrote:
I won't be nitpicky about it, but why didn't you add Mini Bazooka? I know every Air and her mother has a gatling these days, but I still like the Mini Baz for pure damage and antiair.
Plasma matches its damage and has equal/higher stun vs air, while also having more ammo and being better for anti-lnd as well. Mini Bazooka has an obvious advantage in cost though.

When I got around to elaborating on specific cores I was going to mention Mini Bazooka for Seraph specifically.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:25 am

What about limited plasma gun? Is it too inferior compared to plasma gun to be worth using?
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:37 am

@nzlk wrote:
What about limited plasma gun? Is it too inferior compared to plasma gun to be worth using?
I really need to doublecheck the stun on it, but I'm inclined to say yes regardless.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:56 am

What about scouter rifle?
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:36 am

Interesting builds and concept, BUT:

Spoiler:
 

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:14 am

@Tuskin wrote:
Interesting builds and concept, BUT:

Spoiler:
 

Spoiler:
 

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:11 pm

@Hyoka wrote:
Spoiler:
 

I dunno about that. The VE build he gave me stays in the air the entire match, even with 2+ Reshas and a Fia. At the very least, I'd say his skills are diverse.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:32 pm

What nontuned CN BD + Grandum BS can do (in a zero-less type room I believe):

Spoiler:
 

Now figure how well a fully tuned L-zook Destructor can do, but still can't compete against the all-brutal Victorl.

But whatever, I believe most people will keep on playing cheesy Monica and ruining sups' day.
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:34 pm

Thankshuu fer deh nice post o3o i hope C$ adds moar non-gara robots
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PostSubject: Re: [5/30] Useful non-gara resources   Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:42 pm

@Turkeysaur wrote:
What nontuned CN BD + Grandum BS can do (in a zero-less type room I believe):

Spoiler:
 

Now figure how well a fully tuned L-zook Destructor can do, but still can't compete against the all-brutal Victorl.

But whatever, I believe most people will keep on playing cheesy Monica and ruining sups' day.
Yeah, Grandum BS CN is great. Matsuy does really well with one, albeit using an LL Blast.

Shame nobody uses Grandum BS due to the "fatart = bad" mentality. Its homing is really good, even if the missile speed isn't.
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