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 Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos

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Suguri
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PostSubject: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:38 pm

I've seen several guides around for Haku where they focus on teaching ways for anyone to be able to solo 3*.  However, there are no guides whatsoever for how to solo 3* as quickly as possible.  Time to change that!

Note: Rt WILL be involved in this guide.  If you don't at least use UC>Rt and surveys, you aren't going to benefit from reading this.

Note2: This is going to be a really thorough guide.  Expect to read a lot about a little.

-- Equipment --

There are several things you want in terms of top Haku gear.  Depending on your setup, capa tunes may be needed.

- Some sort of combi dagger or combi dagger imitation.  In order of best to worst: Combi Mod > Combi > 3x g.grap Tristar AM > Quill Dagger.  If you can afford to double up, even better; double combi mod can pop several forms before they can even move.

- 40 str; makes a HUMONGOUS difference in how fast your runs will be.  Remember that 40 str gives 72% more damage than 10 str.

- High mobility, wlk or fly.  Wlk is arguably better than fly with anything but tristar am.  Short Boost very heavily recommended; it helps tremendously for Final, Shadow, Trap, and sometimes Nuke.  Minimum of 30 wlk/31 fly.  Accele Roll aids fly builds tremendously.

- A direct melee attack for shield form, and possibly shadow if you botch it.  Since you'll probably have hands full, this will likely need to be an LG or AM melee.  Alternatively, Dual Spike/Dual Slayer/Berz Fly/Dual Pepen bits work instead, if you saved 1 tec.

- Crimson Veil; very rarely likely that it will be useful unless you have single digit tgh, and even then if you play your cards right you won't even need it for anything on a solo run.  Mostly just used as a safety precaution if teammates get too close to Haku Final and trip the tornados while you're behind him.  Clearance could also be useful for Bind and Fire forms, and Hyper Shot will speed up DPS considerably.

Taking all of the above into account, your best core options are (from best to worst):

- Kuten (non-china dress); two free hands, powerful LG melee, decent amount of capa, perfect cart selection, and Siryu Fujinken allows for long-range melee damage to boot against final, trap, whatever.

Concept build (will post later):
 

- Renny Lop; more or less the same as MBG, though vanilla Renny has a worse LG melee option than the variants.  Note also that you need to build her for TEC if you want to use the LG melee; this might make it easier for most players to use her, as she can borrow parts from other gunners (no locked arms and two open BS slots helps due to this too).  If you don't have a second dagger but do have a pierce shotgun, remember that you can switch back from 40 str to 40 tec for that (though the only time this would realistically be useful is for final when you can't get behind the tornados).

Concept build (no special LG tunes):
 
Concept build (Capa tunes + CVeil):
 
(note that I used Renny RS as the base for these; slight tune tweaking is needed to match the builds on BD/BD3)

- Mighty Byne Girl; higher damage physical melee than Kuten, but lower capa and no ranged attack.  Her various body shields are extremely useful for shrugging off random hits during bind and shell drain forms; purge after shell drain in preparation for shield.

Concept build (no unique LG tunes):
 

Concept build (Capa/CV):
 

- Various mecha setups: To my knowledge there aren't any mech setups with more overall performance than Kuten, Renny, or MBG.  I think your best bet would be a date/katana max with either byne arms or geobunkers, though the wideness might be slightly problematic for some forms.

Airs will always be fundamentally worse than Lands due to the nature of running combi attacks, and a lack of potent part melees.  x1 combi Lios or a Crescent Saint with adone lg will probably be the best air options.  I won't provide builds for those though since, as stated, they're fundamentally slower no matter what.


-- Form 1: Melee --
Really basic form, but also one that's really easy to shave a lot of time off of.  The actual melee hitbox is extremely thin, you only need two or three steps to the side for haku to miss completely.  Try to keep him against the wall of the arena so you don't waste years chasing him down, or at least make sure you can get to where he'll stop before he does so you can melee ASAP.  Also worth noting, his melee tracking heavily anticipates where you're going to be; a single tap to the side before he preps his melee will make him strike way to your side.

That all said, you should be able to kill him after 2~3 strikes.

After killing him, I highly recommend running to the north end of the arena.  His bits will begin firing bind traps/missiles at you during his spawn animation otherwise.

Demonstration of Haku's melee AI being abused:



-- Form 2: Bind --
Not much strategy here, try to kill him as fast as possible.  WB dodge binds if needed.  I've noticed binds almost always trip my CV, so you could tune Clearance for this if you really wanted to.

-- Form 3: Shell Drain --
Common misconception here that you should use guns.  This is actually a bad idea; aside from Renny (in a sense), you can't build for 40 tec 40 str, and in the case of S-lnd the only weapon worth it at that point would be pierce shotgun (which wouldn't be worth giving up a second combi for if that's available).  Shell Drain and Fire Forms also take 200% damage from melee as well as bullets, so...

Anyway, again there's very little strategy to this form.  The melee tracking bit from Melee form still applies here, so you can force his melee to miss if you zigzag.

-- Form 4: Barrier --
Tristar AM and Quill Dagger users can still directly attack at point-blank inside the barrier.  Combi Dagger users will want to switch to direct melee weapons, or use their wonder bit if tec isn't zeroed.  To keep from flying through Haku and getting backhit by wisps, you might want to jump and melee so you punch straight down.

-- Form 5: Wonder Bits --
I believe this form can be popped before it warps if you have 40 str x2 combi mod, but I haven't confirmed.  Regardless you should be able to take off ~50% damage if you only have one combi before he warps.  Watch the radar and rush to him ASAP in case breaker bits come out.  If you're slow on reaction to the teleport and can't outrun breakers, it's best to just wait it out.  If any other bit pops up, rush in and kill him off.

Might be worth noting: Like regular missiles, Haku's home more against airborne targets than grounded ones.  Airs might get hit and/or stunned, though the missiles aren't too hard to avoid.  Unlike the other bits, psygun bits can hit you even if you're pointblank on Haku too.

-- Form 6: Shadows --
This form can definitely be popped in one combo with x2 combi.  As long as you have x1 though, you can finish it off in seconds.  Try to get at least one hit in before he splits into more shadows.  After he splits, hop and fly between the shadows he splits into, then melee as soon as they stop floating to finish him off.  On the first split, Haku's invincible until this happens.  If you fail to kill him on the first split, there aren't any invuln frames on any splits after.  When you get the hang of it, this form should only take 7~8 seconds every run.



-- Form 7: Fire --
Again, no guns needed.  Wonder Bit dodge whenever he's about to pillar (one second after his arms raise; gives you time to hit once with combi first).  If you have Sway it's possible to Sway through the pillar as well.  The only problem with this form should be the flamethrowers stunning you and causing you to run away from Haku unintentionally; you can either take anti-burning/clearance for this, try to stay to Haku's back/sides, or try to throw his aim off with wonder bits (many of Haku's forms tend to track toward bits more than players).

May post a video later, though I feel this is kind of self-explanatory.

-- Form 8: Trap --
Another form that I believe can be popped with x2 combi mod.  Kuten's extremely useful here if Haku keeps teleporting away and hiding behind walls of traps, as Siryu Fujinken can hit from long range for 250s.

Trap spawns themselves are fairly static, and follow set patterns.  If you don't have a trap sight available, note that running to the sides a bit every few steps can widen your sight range considerably without slowing you down much.

I'd try to refrain from killing haku immediately after even-numbered teleports, as you'll need to deal with traps during nuke.  Ideally you should kill him after the first warp every time.

Intentionally hitting fire traps isn't a bad idea, as you'll have Seraph-tier flight speed and the trap itself will throw you above the range of other traps.

-- Form 9: Nuke --
Nothing special here.  Melee, WB dodge nuke if you can't kill him before it happens, then finish him off after.  Watch for remaining traps from the previous form.

In the case of a slow run, I believe the second nuke will telefrag you if he's on the south end unless you immediately WB dodge after teleporting.  Third nuke you'll be safe with invuln frames.

-- Form 10: Final --
Will fill in details here later.

-- Things to add --
-Example builds [for Kuten/MBG]
-Details for final
-Video examples for melee tracking/killing shadow on the split
-Anything suggested that I may have forgotten about while doing this (it was admittedly a bit of a rush job)


Last edited by Suguri on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:47 am; edited 6 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:51 pm

[useless post]


Last edited by LXE on Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Suguri
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:58 pm

Got a video recorded for demonstrating the melee tracking abuse, but my own melee tracking screwed me up on shadow form and I lost 300 HP in the process of that part. Ewps.

Oh well, I'll upload what I've got and start on example builds while that's going up.
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:01 am

Quote :
- A direct melee attack for shield form, and possibly shadow if you botch it. Since you'll probably have hands full, this will likely need to be an LG or AM melee. Alternatively, Dual Spike/Dual Slayer/Berz Fly/Dual Pepen bits work instead, if you saved 1 tec.
If you don't have Quills.
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:04 am

@God is a Cat Girl wrote:
Quote :
- A direct melee attack for shield form, and possibly shadow if you botch it. Since you'll probably have hands full, this will likely need to be an LG or AM melee. Alternatively, Dual Spike/Dual Slayer/Berz Fly/Dual Pepen bits work instead, if you saved 1 tec.
If you don't have Quills.
Or Tristar AM.
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:18 am

Better post this in commu as well. ._.
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:25 am

@Stickboy wrote:
Better post this in commu as well. ._.
It'll look like shit to post builds and etc. there without spoiler tags.

Added two builds for Renny, one with low tuning, one with heavy tuning. Also added the Haku melee AI vid, but it hasn't finished processing yet at the time of writing. which is now up!
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:19 pm

Told you guy quill not better than combi=.=

One question: What is the time when u reach outpost?
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:55 pm

3 minutes minimum if you track down chests and teleports well with a fast Air unit, but RNG distance and/or using Lnd robots can increase it to 7 minutes tops. Or at least from personal experience.

Edit: Nice work with the guide, Suguri. Hoping for more additions Wink



Last edited by Gerrion on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:58 pm

More like 3 mins average 4min tops. 2.5 if lucky route
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:23 pm

Is quill dagger really that bad? The few people I regularly do runs with are saying it's the best weapon for haku...
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:30 pm

It's better than 3way. And trying to 3x ggrap a.tristar arm. Otherwise I dunno how it compares to combi
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:34 pm

I think I actually do have a couple of combimods... I'll have to check this out.
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:39 pm

@IncuSlave wrote:
Is quill dagger really that bad? The few people I regularly do runs with are saying it's the best weapon for haku...

From my understanding and observation (I admit to not having used them myself, so I don't have numbers to go by instead just by watched gauge decreases), it has a few shortcomings as far as being optimal. Its best damage comes when Haku is standing still, which he only does in certain phases with regularity. This is also the result of its second shortcoming, which is that it requires some time to deal its full damage. Compare to a Combi Dagger, which does all of its damage at initial impact and I *think* the interval is also shorter (it always looks that way). Quills may do more absolute damage per usage, but I think that the versatility offered by Combi for getting in there and getting all your damage is the main factor to its advantage.

Anecdotally, the movement of throwing Quills is also annoying as it always pushes you back while you combo. This makes you eat more unnecessary hits during Shield Haku and Bit Haku than you really need to (though perhaps it is instead advantageous when hiding behind Haku in the final phase).

The major advantage I see for Quills is that it lets you damage Haku during Shield form which you couldn't do with Combi alone, so it's great for using on bots without a built-in melee (like I see a lot of Haruka and Akane with it). But if you have an in-built melee like Kuten or MBG, then you don't really need that aspect and you can go for the more widely usable Combi.
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:42 pm

Interesting... I wonder if a combimod/quilldag combo would be viable...
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:15 pm

nice guide #em1
wish I have 2nd Combi, only have one I put on 40 str date max, while my 40 str seraph wield MMBG+3way, I don't have tristar am, any other choice (tried GG warhammer, hounddog, @ several UC weapon but seems ineffective att all)
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:04 pm

@IncuSlave wrote:
Is quill dagger really that bad? The few people I regularly do runs with are saying it's the best weapon for haku...
Unreliable sources tell me it's the best weapon, while reliable ones tell me it's 70% as effective as combi (which was also a pretty blatant comparison I could make myself when running with a clanmate that was using one).

tggt wrote:
Told you guy quill not better than combi=.=

One question: What is the time when u reach outpost?
What Yokura said:

@Yokura wrote:
More like 3 mins average 4min tops. 2.5 if lucky route
I think on the current route it's like 2.5 min if I just run to the outpost myself and someone else gets treasures, 4 min if I grab them with kuten, 3 min if I use an air.
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:14 pm

Quill is more effective on stationary targets while combi is more effective on moving targets, since moving targets are the most time consuming and you're aiming for a speedrun... Combi it is.
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:47 pm

Accel Saber BD is also a good choice since it has anti burning and anti slow.

Oh and, I miss you sugu. <3
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:49 pm

HI THIS IS LIKE A SOLO

EXCEPT IT ISN'T


Recorded a random clan Haku run tonight accidentally. It's not a solo run but I think it should demonstrate the point well enough.



(5 minutes remaining on upload at time of writing, give it a bit)
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:39 am

quill dagger isnt as good as combi for haku overall...

but since thats all i have...

so... are quill daggers str based? i tested them myself and i think they are str based...
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:58 am

@Adius wrote:
quill dagger isnt as good as combi for haku overall...

but since thats all i have...

so... are quill daggers str based? i tested them myself and i think they are str based...
Yeah, they're str based. I can't think of anything in memory that's tec/melee.
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:31 am

@Suguri wrote:

Yeah, they're str based. I can't think of anything in memory that's tec/melee.

it's confusing as hell because they can hit blue haku...

btw... at 39 str (with a seraph) ive seen 4k+ dmg many times when attacking final form

but yea my time for solo is about 15 mins...
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:10 pm

and for poorfags with some measure of tuning ability? This is what I can make from Jello's build; 40 STR green tier boostrun:
 

and another one I'm thinking of after talking with suguri about RS AM:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Advanced Haku Guide: <10 Minute Solos   Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:20 pm

Quote :
Cute Beret
Change those 2 things for 2 Black Layer Ribbon, and that's 1 less tune that you have to make. Tec is already bellow 10, and it won't go to 0 anyway.



My only problem with Quills is that it has really weak tracking. I'm used to float dash and then use 3 way, and my Crim would turn towards Haku right way, even when it was over me. When using Quills the bots barely turn towards Haku, if they turn at all.
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