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 Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~

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Abolla
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PostSubject: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:03 am

Three gods A, B, and C are called, in no particular order, True, False, and Random. True always speaks truly, False always speaks falsely, but whether Random speaks truly or falsely is a completely random matter. Your task is to determine the identities of A, B, and C by asking three yes-no questions; each question must be put to exactly one god. The gods understand English, but will answer all questions in their own language, in which the words for yes and no are da and ja, in some order. You do not know which word means which.

  • It could be that some god gets asked more than one question (and hence that some god is not asked any question at all).
    • What the second question is, and to which god it is put, may depend on the answer to the first question. (And of course similarly for the third question.)

  • Whether Random speaks truly or not should be thought of as depending on the flip of a coin hidden in his brain: if the coin comes down heads, he speaks da; if tails, ja.
  • Random will answer da or ja when asked any yes-no question
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Eridian
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:25 am

Jeez, you're asking a lot of our poor community, but I'll give it a shot.

Well, the first part of this puzzle is to find one of the gods (either true or false, it doesn't matter) that is NOT random. He is of little use to us. I started by assuming a meaning for da or ja. In my case, I'm going to assume that da means "yes" and ja means "no."

You can start by asking any yes/no question (that you know the answer to) to C. Example: “If I asked you Q in your current mental state, would you say ‘ja’?”

Second, I'll ask A, “If I asked you, 'Are you Random?' in your present state of mind, would you say “ja”?” If A answers “ja”, he’s Random.
Next, I'll ask B, “If I asked you, “Are you True?”, would you say “ja”?”. The answer is “ja” if B is True. That should put everything into perspective.

Finally, just to clarify, if Random decides to behave like False, that doesn't mean he thinks he's False, it just means that he's going to lie all the time. It's the same thing with True, only he'll always tell the truth.

I hope this all makes sense.... it's really hard to explain how to solve that one...
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AnTi90d
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:47 pm

This is kinda like that door question from the 1986 Jim Henson movie, Labyrinth. "One of us always tells the truth.. and one of us always lies. Of course, I always tell the truth.. and he always lies.. (snickering.)" Yeah, I just woke up.. and am totally incapable of devoting brain power to this right now.

Although, it does remind me of my absolute favorite philosophy quote, "The idea that all ideas are partly true, partly false, and partly meaningless is partly true, partly false and partly meaningless," from Hagbard Celine, a character in the Illuminatus Trilogy.
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Eridian
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:59 pm

The puzzle that this is based off of is commonly referred to as "The Knight and the Knave." That's where one always lies and one always tells the truth. It's been used in a lot of circumstances, but it gained a lot of popularity from Labyrinth. I never saw that movie...

I'd heard this one before, but it's a toughie to explain in print. I love me some logic puzzles. I do more puzzles than MMOs, so that should say something about me.

I do love that philosophy quote.
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Abolla
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:21 pm

@Eridian wrote:
Jeez, you're asking a lot of our poor community, but I'll give it a shot.

Well, the first part of this puzzle is to find one of the gods (either true or false, it doesn't matter) that is NOT random. He is of little use to us. I started by assuming a meaning for da or ja. In my case, I'm going to assume that da means "yes" and ja means "no."

You can start by asking any yes/no question (that you know the answer to) to C. Example: “If I asked you Q in your current mental state, would you say ‘ja’?”

Second, I'll ask A, “If I asked you, 'Are you Random?' in your present state of mind, would you say “ja”?” If A answers “ja”, he’s Random.
Next, I'll ask B, “If I asked you, “Are you True?”, would you say “ja”?”. The answer is “ja” if B is True. That should put everything into perspective.

Finally, just to clarify, if Random decides to behave like False, that doesn't mean he thinks he's False, it just means that he's going to lie all the time. It's the same thing with True, only he'll always tell the truth.

I hope this all makes sense.... it's really hard to explain how to solve that one...
This solution will no longer result in meaningful solution from Random if Random happened to be the first God you were to ask. Reason being 3rd bullet states that random is completely random and doesn't have a truth/lying personally.
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Kirika
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:50 pm

@Abolla wrote:
@Eridian wrote:
Jeez, you're asking a lot of our poor community, but I'll give it a shot.

Well, the first part of this puzzle is to find one of the gods (either true or false, it doesn't matter) that is NOT random. He is of little use to us. I started by assuming a meaning for da or ja. In my case, I'm going to assume that da means "yes" and ja means "no."

You can start by asking any yes/no question (that you know the answer to) to C. Example: “If I asked you Q in your current mental state, would you say ‘ja’?”

Second, I'll ask A, “If I asked you, 'Are you Random?' in your present state of mind, would you say “ja”?” If A answers “ja”, he’s Random.
Next, I'll ask B, “If I asked you, “Are you True?”, would you say “ja”?”. The answer is “ja” if B is True. That should put everything into perspective.

Finally, just to clarify, if Random decides to behave like False, that doesn't mean he thinks he's False, it just means that he's going to lie all the time. It's the same thing with True, only he'll always tell the truth.

I hope this all makes sense.... it's really hard to explain how to solve that one...
This solution will no longer result in meaningful solution from Random if Random happened to be the first God you were to ask. Reason being 3rd bullet states that random is completely random and doesn't have a truth/lying personally.

Abolla, you're doing it wrong:

The Hardest Logic Puzzle Ever wrote:
There are three guardians, A, B and C. Their names are Knight, Knave and Chaos. Knight always speaks truly, Knave always lies. Chaos tossed a coin this morning to decide whether today he would behave like Knight or like Knave.

Your task is simple: ask three yes-no questions, each of a single guardian, and determine which is Knight, which is Knave, and which is Chaos. There is, alas, a complication: the guardians understand English but will answer in the local language, in which “Da” means yes and “Ja” means no. Or possibly “Ja” means yes and “Da” means no – you cannot remember.

If "random" dosn't play by any rules, then he's pointless to have in the scenario anyway.

In any event, this is how you solve it:
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:15 pm

Wiki has it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hardest_Logic_Puzzle_Ever
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Abolla
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:57 am

Lol we're playing as if Random is Random and I'm the one at fault?

Ya sure.
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boytitan2
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:22 am

solution D titan comes kill thes GODS. ALL HAIL THE TITANS

Its to late Ill play later reserving post. Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep
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FrozenEdge
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:58 am

@boytitan2 wrote:
solution D titan comes kill thes GODS. ALL HAIL THE TITANS
*looks signature*
boytitan2 sig wrote:
Screw being a titan
lolwut
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:51 am

@Abolla - One question, did you solve this yourself or did you read through the solution and decided to screw with our minds?
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boytitan2
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:00 am

@FrozenEdge wrote:
@boytitan2 wrote:
solution D titan comes kill thes GODS. ALL HAIL THE TITANS
*looks signature*
boytitan2 sig wrote:
Screw being a titan
lolwut

Made a post bout going back to a titan 3 weeks ago havent updated sig yet.
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Hyoka
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:06 am

"Will you respond to this question in English?"

Watch their heads explode :3

Edit: oh yeah, if it's Random he's going to say "da" or "ja" so you know it's him.
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boytitan2
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:40 pm

@Hyoka wrote:
"Will you respond to this question in English?"

Watch their heads explode :3

Edit: oh yeah, if it's Random he's going to say "da" or "ja" so you know it's him.


WOW PPL DO NOT INVITE U TO PLAY PARTY GAMES DO THEY. SMOOTH MOVE >_<.

Ps this is in da wrong section Im requesting a move sighs.
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xzpwnz
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:46 pm

Lol
This is a famous game
It'd usually take a few minutes if you didn't know the answer
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boytitan2
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:50 pm

@xzpwnz wrote:
Lol
This is a famous game
It'd usually take a few minutes if you didn't know the answer

THis is how u point out knowledge about the game. U dont just give da first answer out in a freaking post like some ppl >_<.
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xzpwnz
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:11 pm

So many variants #em3
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:48 pm

After a bit of thinking, I'm changing my original reply.

Asking the first god "Will you respond to this question in your own language?" Will provoke the answers:

"Da/Ja"(Yes) from Truth; he will only respond in his own language.
Random will reply whatever.
and since False cannot say "Da" or "Ja" because that will be responding in his own language. His head explodes.

If the first god asked happened to be False, ask one of the other two:

"Would you give the same response as the remaining god (this will be Truth or Random, whoever you've not spoken to) to the question 'Do you like pie?'"

Truth cannot tell what Random's answer will be. His head explodes.

Random will speak "Da" or "Ja" anyway, revealing his identity.
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boytitan2
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PostSubject: Re: Mind fuck. I enjoy melted brains in the morning~   Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:10 am

Yep there was no reason to rage shoulda saw this coming. lol! lol!
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