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 Xz's guide to building bots

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xzpwnz
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PostSubject: Xz's guide to building bots   Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:27 pm

This guide includes (or will include if I'm not lazy enough:)
Part Selection
Tuning
Movement cartridges
Types of builds

(In-depth part selection)

Xz, what parts should I use?
Smaller parts that give the most amount of free stats (+2 or moe) relevant to your build, and parts with good internal functions
The only exception to this are L-sized melee-based lands whom can forget about size and maximize free stats

To make the best use of your bots, the bot needs to be small (L-sized melee-based land being an exception) and have the most amount of free stats relevant to your build

Stats that should be relevant to all types of builds are:

-Hp
-Str or tec (One or the other, the exception to this are bots that rely on their wonder bit)
-Wlk or fly (One or the other, the exception to this are bots with boost run)
-Tgh

Wlk and fly should never be 0, keep it at the least at 1
Tgh should never be under 7, keep it at the least at 7

You'll notice the side-effects if you don't do so
Mobility is the most important aspect of a bot
Though, maximizing stats should be the easy part of building a bot

The hell is a free stat?
A free stat is a extra stat given to a part that's not counted in its cost

How do I calculate free stats?
Count every +1 stat as 5 cost (5 hp as 5 cost) and every -1 stat as -5 cost (-5 hp as -5 cost)
For an example, I'll calculate the amount of free stats a neon neos am gives

Cost: 30
Hp: 15 (15 cost)
Str: 2 (10 cost)
Tec: 1 (5 cost)
Fly: 2 (10 cost)
Tgh: -1 (-5 cost)

Add all of the stat costs in parenthesis together to get a worth of 35 cost, but in actuality neon neos am costs 30
This means that a neon neos am gives 1 free stat

Parts with internal functions should have less stats than their cost, to calculate the cost of a internal function or weapon I'll use brickgale bs as an example

Cost: 65
Hp: 25 (25 cost)
Str: 2 (10 cost)
Fly: 3 (15 cost)

Adding all the cost in parenthesis together would get you 50, but the actual cost is 65
This means that the internal function of a brickgale bs is 15 cost
Some internal functions/weapons are worth its amount of cost, some aren't, I'll leave that judgment to you

Note that some stats
I.E Wlk on an fly-based air is considered useless and the wlk stat can be killed (as long as wlk is 1 or higher) and therefore shouldn't be counted as a free stat on airs unless counter tuned with a stat that is relevant to your build or to keep the stat from reaching 0
A type of counter tune would be: High boost alpha +2 fly and -1 wlk with the price of 10 cost (negating the wlk that is considered useless on the fly-based air)

For what str/tec/tgh break points to stop at look at these pretty charts

For projectiles:
 

For melee:
 

For tgh:
 

A few top tier parts without internals for reference

Froglander hd
Cosmo kaiser hd
Bugsycait 2 hd
Blazed baron hd
Sharhead hd
Zero saber 2 hd
Garulabird hd
Swordwing 2 hd
Vector eagle hd
Cannon baller hd

Vanguard bs
Froglander bs
Crocodagger bs
Date max bs
Byakko bs
Mecha jetter bs
Gwyain bs
Shino exroad bs

Tentlion am
Build arm am
Ghost raider am
Cross raptor am
Misty hollow am
Raystag am
Katana max am
Domiclown am
Accel saber am

Thoarla lg
Lazflamme lg
Lazflamme 2 lg
Froglander lg
Ace braver lg
Crabberoid lg
Red squealer lg
Jack gadget 2 lg
Katana max lg
Gun arms lg
Shine buster lg
Big mountaiz lg
Sea lion lg

I'll update and do the rest of the guide some other time.... Probably
If I feel like it

(Movement cartridges)

Duration of flight times are 3/12/4/3 seconds of Land/Air/Artillery/Support type bots


Short boost
A movement cart that replaces the regular dash with a hop
Reliant on both wlk and fly
Bot types that this cart should be used on:
-Land
-Artillery
-Support

Float Dash
A movement cart that replaces the regular dash with flying faster than your regular fly
Reliant on fly
Has a higher priority than short boost if available on an art type
Bot types that this cart should be used on:
-Air
-Artillery

Sway
A movement cart that replaces the regular dash with a faster diagonal dash that has some invincibility frames
Reliant on wlk
Bot types that this cart should be used on:
-Land
-Art

Boost Run
A movement cart that replaces running with a faster run while using your boost gauge
Reliant on wlk and fly, but moe reliant on wlk
Bot types that this cart should be used on:
-Land (melee based, 6.5 seconds of boost running)
-Artillery (8 seconds of boost running)
-Support (6.5 seconds of boost running)
I won't include boost run on air because it's just stupid

Quick Land
A movement cart that makes you land quicker while in the air
Bot types that this cart should be used on:
-Land (only if they have short boost)
-Air

Quick Jump
A movement cart that makes reaching maximum altitude quicker
Bot types that this cart should be used on:
-Land (only if they have short boost)
-Air

Quick Swim
Wouldn't be useful unless you're Ion or something

Air Run
Sharhead & pepo exclusive movement cart
Reliant on wlk

Slide Boost
Katalina exclusive movement cart
Reliant on fly

Accele Roll
A movement cart that gives you a mid-air spin dash
Reliant on fly
Consumes 1.71 seconds of your boost gauge
Should be used on all air bots besides alpha airs if possible
Bot types that this cart should be used on:
-Air
-Artillery

Air Loop
A movement cart that can only be used on air types and should only be used on alpha airs
It gives you a mid-air forward flip that also increases your current altitude
Reliant on fly
Consumes 1.09 seconds of your boost gauge
Bot types that this cart should be used on:
-Air (alpha airs)


Last edited by xzpwnz on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:06 am; edited 21 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:30 pm

Thanks xz, this'll help me a bit a lot.


Last edited by LXE on Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:34 pm

@xzpwnz wrote:

Wlk and fly should never be 0, keep it at the least at 1

erm... don't knock it till you try it? Hawkspar liked his 0 fly hops Jhammer
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:57 pm

Glad to see I'm not the only one that looks at parts this way. Actually I guess I'd be surprised if I was.

Good guide, hopefully I start seeing some smarter part selection in game soon.
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:34 pm

stats?
i know of no such thing

i just need more zookas and more asura adj
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:49 pm

@BNOISE wrote:
stats?
i know of no such thing

i just need more zookas and more asura adj
Boytitan? Is that you?
Nvm, bt stopped doing that
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:32 pm

This is very useful. I like it.

One thing about TGH...I personally try to keep it at 10+, unless I'm hitting a Stun Regain build. And even then, I keep it 8+.

And no, you should NEVER zero out a mobility stat. I tried 0 WLK on my Crimrose, and it's so fucking slow that it's like she's moving through a pool of maple syrup.
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:53 pm

@FireKiller87 wrote:
I tried 0 WLK on my Crimrose, and it's so fucking slow that it's like she's moving through a pool of maple syrup.

And Quick Jump gets negated at 0 WLK too (I tried with my dummy Seraph, derp).
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:14 am

is it worth to increase TGH from 7 to 11 *cough* for S bots which doesn't care about getting stunned, maybe I can put them to better stat
is proto life worth it for 15 hp - 1 slot,
do slow/revenge/and any other % tune stack, is it direct, dimishing, or multiplicating
can we put 2 diferent effect on subs (i.e : slow & burn)
do full melee build any good, i noticed i can't see ppl in radar thus make it half useless, but it's fun to catch ppl unprepared cuz i came without lock-on warning

and is there anyway to get cosmo regret without spending cosmic coin or waiting one came out from lotto Sleep , need moar slow!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:19 am

@Nymph~ wrote:
is it worth to increase TGH from 7 to 11 *cough* for S bots which doesn't care about getting stunned, maybe I can put them to better stat
is proto life worth it for 15 hp - 1 slot,
do slow/revenge/and any other % tune stack, is it direct, dimishing, or multiplicating
can we put 2 diferent effect on subs (i.e : slow & burn)
do full melee build any good, i noticed i can't see ppl in radar thus make it half useless, but it's fun to catch ppl unprepared cuz i came without lock-on warning

and is there anyway to get cosmo regret without spending cosmic coin or waiting one came out from lotto Sleep , need moar slow!!!!!
Yeah it's worth it to increase to 11
% tunes stack
You can put on 2 different effects but don't know why you'd do that
Full melee is good but useless vs a good air
You can get cosmo regrets from star coin shop lotto and uc gara
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:20 am

@xzpwnz wrote:
Yeah it's worth it to increase to 11
% tunes stack
You can put on 2 different effects but don't know why you'd do that
Full melee is good but useless vs a good air
You can get cosmo regrets from star coin shop lotto and uc gara
ok, 11 TGH then, cant increase more cuz slot problem
I see
just courious
melee is bad against good airs anyway, oh wait most [non anti air] bots are bad against GOOD air anyway
i've used my coin to buy prot,and no cosmo regret from cube nor UC gara .-.
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:42 am

What are the effects when the TGH of a bot is less than 7? Why 7, btw?
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:45 am

@mitchi.exe wrote:
What are the effects when the TGH of a bot is less than 7? Why 7, btw?
7 1st breakpoint of tgh.
Get lower than that and prepare to get stunned from mere handguns.
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:26 am

Useful, will link; was going to make a paragraph on this in mine but this sums it up much better. GJ xz.

Also, I hate to be a nitpicker, (don't flame me on this), but I thought new threads were supposed to be made in their respective subforums. Or is that ...uhh not it?
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:22 pm

@ngelicdark wrote:
Useful, will link; was going to make a paragraph on this in mine but this sums it up much better. GJ xz.

Also, I hate to be a nitpicker, (don't flame me on this), but I thought new threads were supposed to be made in their respective subforums. Or is that ...uhh not it?
Iron & suguu said thread was too broad to be put in a sub forum
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:25 pm

Something I'd like to add to this: If your bot's build is going to let a stat drop to zero (let's use str for the example), you should calculate the free cost on a part differently. Any parts with +str would be giving you effectively no stat benefit while still adding extra cost, making parts that have +str cost bloated and inefficient. On the other hand, a part with -str won't affect you negatively in any way, meaning you shouldn't subtract it from the free stat calculation. Basically, if you're letting a stat zero out, don't calculate it in for the free cost.

If I didn't make my point clear, I'll use Raystag AM as an example.

35 cost
20 HP
-1 str
2 tec
1 wlk
2 fly
1 tgh

On a bot that's aiming to preserve str, the stats on this part are worth 45 cost, while the part itself is worth 35 cost - a net gain of 10 free cost. If you don't care about str, the -1 str is irrelevant, bringing up the stat value to 50 cost.

In contrast, Zero Saber AM2 on the same bot.

40 cost
25 HP
3 str
1 wlk
1 fly

The stats are worth 50 cost to a normal bot, but to our 0-str bot that +3 str doesn't help us at all, making the stats worth 35 cost - less than the actual cost of the part instead of more. As such, the part is rendered inefficient.

tl;dr if you're letting a stat zero out don't count that stat when calculating free stats
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:55 pm

Now, if only we had more awesome cost efficient parts that looked cool...
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:05 pm

That's why I bolded that the stats must be relevant to your build
I've people coming up to me saying "but you never said that in your guide"
I covered nearly everything part-wise either directly or indirectly thus far
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:10 pm

@xzpwnz wrote:
@ngelicdark wrote:
Useful, will link; was going to make a paragraph on this in mine but this sums it up much better. GJ xz.

Also, I hate to be a nitpicker, (don't flame me on this), but I thought new threads were supposed to be made in their respective subforums. Or is that ...uhh not it?
Iron & suguu said thread was too broad to be put in a sub forum

Oh okie. So that's how it's gonna work.


Maybe should mod guide to have cost effective parts (on a general basis)? Or maybe I could adjunct that idk..
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:45 am

dont forget that depending on whatever slots and cost you may have aviable, a part with high stacked single stats MIGHT become more interesting (read: it might save you from doing a great tune for stat stacking purposes ... though, as heavy spender you wont encounter that problem)
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:43 am

>You'd ever use a great stat tune
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:49 am

Sometimes if you're in a crunch for stats and slots, but have plenty of cap, yeah you'd go for a great tune. Some bots have the capacity for that..but honestly great tunes should be applied after all the +2 stat tunes have gone through (preferably beta versions).
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:53 pm

Only bot I can think of that you would even consider a Great Tune on is Hatigarm Machine. So much damn capa with so few slots.
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:54 pm

so, for all those that just skip half the post i will quote myself:

Quote :
though, as heavy spender you wont encounter that problem)

questions answered ?
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PostSubject: Re: Xz's guide to building bots   Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:58 pm

what?

Spoiler:
 
-_-

Great tunes are very situational though, I agree. Unless you have the capacity and absolutely MUST reach some breakpoint for your build, exclude them from any type of build.

On a more practical note:
The Great weapon tunes are significantly more useful. Great _____ Beta tunes are basically your High _____ Beta tunes, adding +1 of your chosen stat and +15 cost, so they're a lot more useful if you're trying not to tank a stat. Normal Great tunes should almost always be excluded unless you are extremely tight on tuning mats, absolutely need the tune for your build to work, and desperately need the success rate(and you can't take another -1 stat or you'll tank, if you're choosing Great over Great Beta or Great Alpha).
And if you must use a Great tune, never use Gamma, or enjoy your -1 in every other fricken stat.

@Raven: Cyclotes also has a shitload of capacity, although every one of his parts comes with three slots. I'd also consider using Great tunes on him.
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