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 The "Quit Doing That" Guide

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Yokura
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:22 pm

PropBSJ, Rear Wing are still fail with a slot. Wing AMJs are halfway decent if they come with a slot. But it's still so cost ineffective it hurts, so it's not like you would ever use that slots for any endgame builds anyways.

RT Charge campaign joints are a different case though, those are nifty.
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Raven
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:24 pm

@Trill wrote:
Is it effective?

I'm sure it works okay, but I've never been keen on a fly based hopper on anything but air bots. Not sure if derpstructor has floatdash either, but I'd have rather used it.

It's not a hop hop spam. It's hop and FLY. It's missing Accel Roll though.

Hopping Accel Roll Destructors are pro.
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808
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:32 pm

@Raven wrote:
Hopping Accel Roll Destructors are pro.

Don't forget moving burst and a zero respawn ticket. /sarcasm
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BNOISE
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:21 pm

@808 wrote:
@Raven wrote:
Hopping Accel Roll Destructors are pro.

Don't forget moving burst and a zero respawn ticket. /sarcasm

there's no need for a respawn ticket

i seen this vid in forums a while back where there was this high flying destructor with just a grandum bs and some random gun pwning the crap out of everyone
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:59 pm

@808 wrote:
@Raven wrote:
Hopping Accel Roll Destructors are pro.

Don't forget moving burst and a zero respawn ticket. /sarcasm

Nope. People seem to derp hard when fighting hoppers. Same with Accel Roll/Air Loop users.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:57 pm

whats wrong with being targetted?
well, not that i expect teamplay much though.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:08 am

@Kecepirit wrote:
whats wrong with being targetted?

Bullets kill you.

Updated the guide with the whole "mega-melee" thing.
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Aria
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:36 am

Well I only use my Wing Plus AMJs when in Quests.

But that kuten needs some serious spanking.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:48 am

being targetted and getting hit are two different things.

example in case, maxis' railgun have more range than most other weapons, if the one you're shooting at have maximum draw distance, they would be able to see you or at least track where they were getting hit from, but not necessarily hit you back.
now what if they saw a delicious fat grandum maxis walking coffin out the distance? tunnel vision.
you guess what happens next.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:04 am

The above is a fair point. Unless I recognize the player or weaponry associated with a fatbot as threatening, a lot of players, myself included, have no compunctions against tunnel visioning a fatty for that assumed free kill.

Still though, if you're going to be that large, you really don't want to be anywhere that you're going to be excessively shot at, unless you're like a 40 tgh 800 HP dae with k-shields or something.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:25 am

Quoted from a clanmate:

"If a VF/VA or other OP lnds walk up to ur maril (me), run to your nearest fat art ally"

Hope this explains sth.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:58 am

@Kitouski wrote:
The point is that meleeing while you melee so you can melee while you melee isn't necessarily a good thing.

I lol'd a lot at this.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:50 pm

Not that I support this "mega meleeing" in any way, but I think it should be mentioned you get a damage multiplier when you combo off of your melees. Not that it supports the mega meleeing enough to actually use it, but someone might bring it up in the future.

Also, I'm not that sold on whole hitbox thing when it comes to fencers. If you're dealing with an ABR seraph, or anything else that shoots, sure. But I fail to see how a Vanguard would be able to take advantage of someone's hitbox without shooting himself. As for the "50+ health is void the moment you take damage," that assumes that if you had the smaller hitbox, you would not get hit at all, which isn't true. Unless you can confirm that those hits were solely due to the increased hitbox, chances are you would have gotten hit anyway, and be down to even less health. 50+ health can be a huge difference, especially when there's a medic on your team.

Finally, when you say you want a "small hitbox," do you mean as small as possible, or thin? I remember someone saying that many builds like to make themselves as thin as possible.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:44 pm

@hyorinryu wrote:
Not that I support this "mega meleeing" in any way, but I think it should be mentioned you get a damage multiplier when you combo off of your melees. Not that it supports the mega meleeing enough to actually use it, but someone might bring it up in the future.

Also, I'm not that sold on whole hitbox thing when it comes to fencers. If you're dealing with an ABR seraph, or anything else that shoots, sure. But I fail to see how a Vanguard would be able to take advantage of someone's hitbox without shooting himself. As for the "50+ health is void the moment you take damage," that assumes that if you had the smaller hitbox, you would not get hit at all, which isn't true. Unless you can confirm that those hits were solely due to the increased hitbox, chances are you would have gotten hit anyway, and be down to even less health. 50+ health can be a huge difference, especially when there's a medic on your team.

Finally, when you say you want a "small hitbox," do you mean as small as possible, or thin? I remember someone saying that many builds like to make themselves as thin as possible.

Increased hitbox = higher chance of being struck by a stray shot. It's proven, a fatter target has more things for you to shoot at to inflict damage. Any increased health you obtain by using fatass parts is null and void once you get slammed by a nuclear missile that a smaller mecha/moebot could have outflown or simply dodged.

Small hitbox...ideally, short, thin, compact. Seraph Crim is all this without using her Wings. LazFlamme is thin, but she's lengthy once you stick on LazFlamme BS. Beezle/Frog Lander/all those gimmicky low cost bots are all this, mostly why they're so fucking annoying to 95% of the community.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:09 pm

@FireKiller87 wrote:


Increased hitbox = higher chance of being struck by a stray shot. It's proven, a fatter target has more things for you to shoot at to inflict damage. Any increased health you obtain by using fatass parts is null and void once you get slammed by a nuclear missile that a smaller mecha/moebot could have outflown or simply dodged.

Small hitbox...ideally, short, thin, compact. Seraph Crim is all this without using her Wings. LazFlamme is thin, but she's lengthy once you stick on LazFlamme BS. Beezle/Frog Lander/all those gimmicky low cost bots are all this, mostly why they're so fucking annoying to 95% of the community.

If a small bot can outfly it, a large bot can too. 40 FLY is 40 FLY. Also, in your argument "could" is the key word. That small bot could have gotten hit too, and have even less health as a result.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:22 pm

@hyorinryu wrote:
Also, I'm not that sold on whole hitbox thing when it comes to fencers. If you're dealing with an ABR seraph, or anything else that shoots, sure. But I fail to see how a Vanguard would be able to take advantage of someone's hitbox without shooting himself. As for the "50+ health is void the moment you take damage," that assumes that if you had the smaller hitbox, you would not get hit at all, which isn't true.
"50+ health being void" assumes that you get hit at least two less times with something like skullroid lg compared to something like big mountaiz lg. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to dodge at least two more shots in that life with skullroid lg.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:28 pm

@Suguri wrote:
@hyorinryu wrote:
Also, I'm not that sold on whole hitbox thing when it comes to fencers. If you're dealing with an ABR seraph, or anything else that shoots, sure. But I fail to see how a Vanguard would be able to take advantage of someone's hitbox without shooting himself. As for the "50+ health is void the moment you take damage," that assumes that if you had the smaller hitbox, you would not get hit at all, which isn't true.
"50+ health being void" assumes that you get hit at least two less times with something like skullroid lg compared to something like big mountaiz lg. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to dodge at least two more shots in that life with skullroid lg.
they should make it that if you get shot in the head, it's auto crit
if you lose your head, it's auto death instead of just losing all radar

then big mountainz leg would be really good
and having a puny head like ghost raider head would be godly
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:57 pm

@hyorinryu wrote:
@FireKiller87 wrote:


Increased hitbox = higher chance of being struck by a stray shot. It's proven, a fatter target has more things for you to shoot at to inflict damage. Any increased health you obtain by using fatass parts is null and void once you get slammed by a nuclear missile that a smaller mecha/moebot could have outflown or simply dodged.

Small hitbox...ideally, short, thin, compact. Seraph Crim is all this without using her Wings. LazFlamme is thin, but she's lengthy once you stick on LazFlamme BS. Beezle/Frog Lander/all those gimmicky low cost bots are all this, mostly why they're so fucking annoying to 95% of the community.

If a small bot can outfly it, a large bot can too. 40 FLY is 40 FLY. Also, in your argument "could" is the key word. That small bot could have gotten hit too, and have even less health as a result.

"Could" is just being honest about the fact that not everything works 100% of the time. You're trying to engineer success, but that doesn't mean anything is absolute. If the wording was "will", then there would already be a thread about how OP that bot/play-style is, right? Just because it isn't an absolute defense, doesn't change the fact that being small means being harder to hit and being bigger means being easier to hit. Its the difference between throwing a snowball at a UPS truck and throwing the same snowball at a geo metro going the same speed.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:22 pm

@hyorinryu wrote:
Not that I support this "mega meleeing" in any way, but I think it should be mentioned you get a damage multiplier when you combo off of your melees. Not that it supports the mega meleeing enough to actually use it, but someone might bring it up in the future.

@Kitouski wrote:
This is NOT me saying using more then one melee weapon is a bad idea, it's just that you should have a reason to make your bot unreasonably expensive.

Including things like Squealer + Almost anything, Zero Step + Reaper Scythe, really anything that's not black and white which is why I used facepalm'able examples to not put anyone off. Though just for the sake of it, I'll edit in the whole multiplier thing just so people understand what I mean.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:26 pm

Hey Kitou, I've got another person for you to go beat up.

Spoiler:
 

Tried to tell him it was dumb, he wouldn't listen. Typical wiz. :<
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:56 pm

I can think of one excellent reason for an Air bot to use a Ballista Shooter over a Power Shooter: Ballista Shooters are in the Super UC Gara. Power Shooters are RT-only.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:40 pm

@Klinkin wrote:
I can think of one excellent reason for an Air bot to use a Ballista Shooter over a Power Shooter: Ballista Shooters are in the Super UC Gara. Power Shooters are RT-only.
Indeed, I only said that Power is always better then Ballista. If you can't get a Power, I already posted this on the Ballista itself;

@Kitouski wrote:
I won't get into using a Ballistic Shooter or not without Power Shooter on a AIR though, considering I want to list big "common sense" things that are black and white. Even though I think it's a bad pair up, there's room for debate there for me to state anything.

@Suguri wrote:
Hey Kitou, I've got another person for you to go beat up.

Spoiler:
 

OMAGAD, I HATE JIKUNS WITH SWORDS SO MUCH. Q_Q
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Aria
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:51 pm

@Kitouski wrote:
@Klinkin wrote:
I can think of one excellent reason for an Air bot to use a Ballista Shooter over a Power Shooter: Ballista Shooters are in the Super UC Gara. Power Shooters are RT-only.
Indeed, I only said that Power is always better then Ballista. If you can't get a Power, I already posted this on the Ballista itself

Ballista Shooter Mod applies? Surprised
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:54 pm

Ballista Shooter Mod has nice DPS iirc. Bowguns in general are well-suited for airs, since the projectile arc they have makes it easier to hit targets directly below you than with guns that have no arc to them.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:54 pm

@Suguri wrote:
Ballista Shooter Mod has nice DPS iirc. Bowguns in general are well-suited for airs, since the projectile arc they have makes it easier to hit targets directly below you than with guns that have no arc to them.

Well sometimes I hit AIRs with 40+ Damage on 1 arrow shot (40 tec).
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