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 The "Quit Doing That" Guide

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Kitouski
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 6:46 pm

"Super-meleeing" was me kind of joking, but uhh... it means I don't ever want to see a dual pile-punker, Broadsword, Haku Sword Mighty Byne in arena again. That's 1200 free BP trying to attack you at like 12 wlk at best. Vroooom... oh wait.

This would also count as super melee. Jikun LGs, Haku Sword, Blank Staff go! ...wat...

Spoiler:
 

You get the idea... inconsistent, spurratic, expensive melee.

Updated it with weapon replacements.
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FireKiller87
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 8:15 pm

Smaller is always better. Why do you think moebots are fairly common? Because almost all of them are S size and humanoid in shape. Easy to evade attacks. Fatasses wield bigger and badder weapons but are just as easy to kill as the bots they're shooting at.

You know an easy way to avoid having your shots blocked? JUMP. Yes, I fucking said it. JUMP, FOR FUCK'S SAKE. How dense do you have to be to not figure that out, I don't even. If you have trouble shooting on the move with your heavy shit, jump and hover. Every bot has enough airtime to fire at least one shot.
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BNOISE
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 8:20 pm

@Kitouski wrote:
"Super-meleeing" was me kind of joking, but uhh... it means I don't ever want to see a dual pile-punker, Broadsword, Haku Sword Mighty Byne in arena again. That's 1200 free BP trying to attack you at like 12 wlk at best. Vroooom... oh wait.

This would also count as super melee. Jikun LGs, Haku Sword, Blank Staff go! ...wat...

Spoiler:
 

You get the idea... inconsistent, spurratic, expensive melee.

Updated it with weapon replacements.

Need more damage bro!
Pile bunker = weak damage unless tuned
There's nothing wrong with a Byne having a Haku staff. Broadsword is over the top...

Same concept for Jikun.
Legs do crap damage.
An ART bot (meaning no sword guard, nothing) with 400 hp can sit through Jikun combo kicks 2x before even dropping down to having less than 100 hp.
And what with lag and all, it's a miracle you can even aim those kicks properly.

Haku staff gives more umph for the finisher.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 8:26 pm

I like how one comment about hitting some random person who runs in front of your shot garnered so much attention. Jump? I do if I needed too, and I even have low slung builds sitting around. Heaven forbid I feel lazy and want to screw around sometimes...lol
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 8:55 pm

@BNOISE wrote:

Pile bunker = weak damage unless tuned

Haku staff gives more umph for the finisher.
um what

Every Pilebunker incarnation has more force than kamui staff, and in fact Pilebunkers are one of the harder hitting melee weapons. The reason why people don't use them much is because, with the exception of byne girl, they suffer from range and speed issues. Kamui Staff, in contrast, has good range and speed, but bad force. Using pilebunkers as a finisher to kamui staff works...though I wouldn't use it, personally.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 9:41 pm

@BNOISE wrote:
BTW that saggit with the legs is wrongly built.
Most newbs are smart enough to stick on more guns for alpha strike.

A newb saggit that is more properly newb built is

The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 Newb_s10

What you have actually done there in that pic without having multiple guns is a pure abomination.

No thank, i'm making a sniper not an alpha striker, i took enuff advice from one of the best sniper i know in this game.

U think a 28 fly 30 tec saggy is wrongly built scratch

At least i wont put tat fatdum BS on my bot.

@Midona wrote:

You know I'm right. You knoooooooôôôôôôw I'm right.

Tat "ôôôôôô" make me think u r VNese=]
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BNOISE
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 9:57 pm

tggt wrote:


No thank, i'm making a sniper not an alpha striker, i took enuff advice from one of the best sniper i know in this game.

U think a 28 fly 30 tec saggy is wrongly built scratch

At least i wont put tat fatdum BS on my bot.
wrong saggit bro
i meant the op's
and no man seriously misside arms + zooka + saggit isnt that good of a build.
it's just what newb uc mostly alpha strikers do cause they can't get better weapons.


@Suguri wrote:

um what

Every Pilebunker incarnation has more force than kamui staff, and in fact Pilebunkers are one of the harder hitting melee weapons. The reason why people don't use them much is because, with the exception of byne girl, they suffer from range and speed issues. Kamui Staff, in contrast, has good range and speed, but bad force. Using pilebunkers as a finisher to kamui staff works...though I wouldn't use it, personally.
I think you misread - Pilebunker is weak damage unless tuned cause of slow speed and bad combo unless in your face.
So bad damage. (as in Damage over time cause it hit slow, not Damage per hit)

Kamui staff gives umph for finisher for Jikuns not for Bynes.
I don't even want to know why a Byne would use Staff for finisher when they got Pile Bunker already.
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Hyoka
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 10:13 pm

Quote :
- If you're an AIR, use a Power Shooter over Ballistic Shooter always. The redeeming quality of Ballistia Shooter is that other things then AIR can use it, otherwise Power Shooter is better in nearly every way for AIR bots itself. For a bit of a comparison;

Power Shooter - 140 cost, -1 str, 13 force, 370 ammo, 350 range, 430 speed, 640 int
Ballista Shooter - 180 cost, -1 str, -1 wlk, 16 force, 340 ammo, 250 range, 380 speed, 540 int

You're forgetting Power Shooter is RT.
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fggt
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 11:03 pm

@BNOISE wrote:

wrong saggit bro
i meant the op's
and no man seriously misside arms + zooka + saggit isnt that good of a build.
it's just what newb uc mostly alpha strikers do cause they can't get better weapons.

I see, misunderstood. Though i still dont think alpha strike with a railgun is good idea, if a newb cant get better wps, then stick with pure sniper even better.
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Kitouski
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 11:11 pm

@Hyoka wrote:
Quote :
- If you're an AIR, use a Power Shooter over Ballistic Shooter always. The redeeming quality of Ballistia Shooter is that other things then AIR can use it, otherwise Power Shooter is better in nearly every way for AIR bots itself. For a bit of a comparison;

Power Shooter - 140 cost, -1 str, 13 force, 370 ammo, 350 range, 430 speed, 640 int
Ballista Shooter - 180 cost, -1 str, -1 wlk, 16 force, 340 ammo, 250 range, 380 speed, 540 int

You're forgetting Power Shooter is RT.

Indeed, I'll specify that so it's not too misleading, but I know there are people who would be willing to roll for the better weapon.

I won't get into using a Ballistic Shooter or not without Power Shooter on a AIR though, considering I want to list big "common sense" things that are black and white. Even though I think it's a bad pair up, there's room for debate there for me to state anything.
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FireKiller87
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 11:12 pm

tggt wrote:
@BNOISE wrote:

wrong saggit bro
i meant the op's
and no man seriously misside arms + zooka + saggit isnt that good of a build.
it's just what newb uc mostly alpha strikers do cause they can't get better weapons.

I see, misunderstood. Though i still dont think alpha strike with a railgun is good idea, if a newb cant get better wps, then stick with pure sniper even better.

Unless you're a Saggy III(Thats the one with dual rails, yes?) and equip dual rails/have at least two or three rails working per strike, you're doing it wrong.
I don't know why you'd put Misside AM or a heavy Bazooka on Saggitary when you can shoot everything down with your rails. I get that you might want close-combat weapons or maybe antiair, but seriously, Saggy should not be on the front lines anyway, and railguns can shoot down Air at any range(though close range is difficult, I know, but it's doable).

Power Shooter is nice if you can afford shelling out for it. Otherwise...well, efficiency must sometimes give way to accessibility. Same deal with tuning, you simply can't afford to tune for efficiency unless you have a lot of whatever 3s part/are willing to spill blood and tears farming said part endlessly.

Pilebunkers don't strike me as a combo DoT weapon. They're meant for a single, concentrated, powerful strike. You want combo, use a Vanguard, Ivis, or even Jikun LG.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 11:35 pm

@FireKiller87 wrote:

Unless you're a Saggy III(Thats the one with dual rails, yes?) and equip dual rails/have at least two or three rails working per strike, you're doing it wrong.
I don't know why you'd put Misside AM or a heavy Bazooka on Saggitary when you can shoot everything down with your rails. I get that you might want close-combat weapons or maybe antiair, but seriously, Saggy should not be on the front lines anyway, and railguns can shoot down Air at any range(though close range is difficult, I know, but it's doable).

U quoted my post so i think u talk abt me, then if u read from the start, i'm the one go pure sniper and BNOISE is the one tat said stick on more gun for alpha strike. Just to make everything clear Smile

@BNOISE wrote:
BTW that saggit with the legs is wrongly built.
Most newbs are smart enough to stick on more guns for alpha strike.

A newb saggit that is more properly newb built is

The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 Newb_s10

What you have actually done there in that pic without having multiple guns is a pure abomination.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 13, 2011 11:49 pm

Bravo Kit, encapsulated stuff I wanted to add in my guide a long time ago (when I first began), and forgot to. For that, I'd give you cookies.


Will link this to mine (if I may), as I don't see why I have to waste effort on my part for regurgitating the same info. Besides, no one (okay, 99.99% of em) reads my writing from start to finish.



Also, I have to say this much:


A guide is simply a guide. That's all it is. It's not end all be all, but rather something to keep in mind as you do your own testing. You guys are free to agree as much as to disagree; it's what makes life, well life. Just keep it as a civil argument based on "factual" opinion (if you guys can ever wrap your heads around such an oxymoron) because really, it's up to the reader to decide what they wanna do with their bots. Don't think people's arguments are based off people, because people change theirs all the time.



The clash of opinions though, makes this thread more interesting than others to read though. So long as it remains civil at least (the more derailing people of these forums haven't posted yet so I'm wary).
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 12:09 am

@808 & Intent
A Small Saggitary Maxis, is fine on flat lands, but when the terrain becomes more riggid, and you have more teammates on your side, it really becomes HARD to snipe with it (Or hit something with it).... So to solve this, i had to remove Steel Rider LG from my Maxis I, and gave him Gwyain LG, not as tall as Mountainz, but gives more FLY for me to fly around with (TGH too)

This guide is still open for critism, like mine that would totally scream "TITAN BAZOOKA IN YOUR FACE!", since the smaller you are, the more likely that you have almost no TGH. So that's an easy 100 Damage with a regular Titan Baz Build.

@"Super Melee"
That's described as things as Daedalian Jet Hammers, Mighty Byne JetHam/Baz Hoppers, Beetlander Extreme, Red Squealer Daedalian AM2, and etc.... not the ones listed like Dual Pilebunker (I have that with a Hatigarm, it still works.), Broadsword and etc.

@FireKiller87
I've alphastriked with a Saggitary Maxis I w/ Jet Hammer. It was... fun. (mumbles w/ 2 jham kills and 3 railgunkills...)

Anyways, to the thread posters, try to keep your arguments civil. While not actually sort of a flame war, the guide writer takes defensive stances on his or her opinion, so try to be a bit gentler in explaining your side of the story, so the guide poster/writer and anyone else can understand your viewpoint.

ALSO.

PLEASE, for the love of all that's cute................ DO NOT POST IMAGES USING TINYPIC, PLEASE!
There's some people that cannot view tinypic (Non-USA or Canada), why would you -still- use a website that promotes separatism? Use www.imgur.com
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BNOISE
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 1:13 am

tggt wrote:
@FireKiller87 wrote:

Unless you're a Saggy III(Thats the one with dual rails, yes?) and equip dual rails/have at least two or three rails working per strike, you're doing it wrong.
I don't know why you'd put Misside AM or a heavy Bazooka on Saggitary when you can shoot everything down with your rails. I get that you might want close-combat weapons or maybe antiair, but seriously, Saggy should not be on the front lines anyway, and railguns can shoot down Air at any range(though close range is difficult, I know, but it's doable).

U quoted my post so i think u talk abt me, then if u read from the start, i'm the one go pure sniper and BNOISE is the one tat said stick on more gun for alpha strike. Just to make everything clear Smile

@BNOISE wrote:
BTW that saggit with the legs is wrongly built.
Most newbs are smart enough to stick on more guns for alpha strike.

A newb saggit that is more properly newb built is

The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 Newb_s10

What you have actually done there in that pic without having multiple guns is a pure abomination.

I was just saying sticking on more guns is what most people do.
Op has zooka on the potential build anyways.

But for me

Saggits + flamethrower + breaker is what i think is best.
As for legs, everyone knows snailbot legs are generally best.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 1:27 am

I think "Stop using Viper Shield" deserves its own section.
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Hyoka
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 1:47 am

@Raven wrote:
I think "Stop using Viper Shield" deserves its own section.

Only for small bots.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 2:09 am

I still have two Wing Plus AMJs on my Seraph... Embarassed

But I can't be pissed to junk my Seraph and arena/quest grind back to level 10 for a few extra tec from the standard build.


Wish this thread existed when I was a nub nub before I did derp. Although the fat = bigger target was already common sense for me.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 2:24 am

@Falads wrote:
I still have two Wing Plus AMJs on my Seraph... Embarassed

But I can't be pissed to junk my Seraph and arena/quest grind back to level 10 for a few extra tec from the standard build.


Wish this thread existed when I was a nub nub before I did derp. Although the fat = bigger target was already common sense for me.
should've made summer crim
don't even need to worry about it at all lol
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 9:25 am

Also, to add to "Quit Doing That":

The Short Boost cartridge can work well even without the Quick Land cartridge; on bots that aren't hop-heavy, that is (think of K-shield melees). I see a LOT of Short Boost builds that have Quick Land, even though they aren't hoppers.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 9:41 am

I saw someone post this build in official website
Spoiler:
 
is it effective affraid
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 9:52 am

Is it effective?

I'm sure it works okay, but I've never been keen on a fly based hopper on anything but air bots. Not sure if derpstructor has floatdash either, but I'd have rather used it.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 10:02 am

@rei_hunter wrote:
@808 & Intent
A Small Saggitary Maxis, is fine on flat lands, but when the terrain becomes more riggid, and you have more teammates on your side, it really becomes HARD to snipe with it (Or hit something with it).... So to solve this, i had to remove Steel Rider LG from my Maxis I, and gave him Gwyain LG, not as tall as Mountainz, but gives more FLY for me to fly around with (TGH too)

The only point I was trying to make was that he was trying to sell size as an advantage in a crowd, by the reasoning of being able to shoot over teammates. Now I don't care what you or anyone says, nothing against you personally Intent or rei_hunter, but that is silly. If teammates are in your way, then move to a different position. Selling size as an advantage in that case is saying that you want to be noticeable, noticeable is targeted, and being targeted has been known to result in a minor case of death.

Condensed point:

Small guy hides in crowds and and terrain; an elusive creature is he...
Big guy stands out and is targeted; over terrain and other targets it is only him you see...
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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 10:37 am

Have a few things to say.

Joint parts: I agree with this. Their cost is just too big for what they do, but they serve as good stat boosters for poepl who don't want to tune/have yet to tune.

Fatrobos: ramjet launcher, beam rifle, saggy's railguns are among some of the weapons that absolutely derp if the bot is too small; try to be as small as you can whenever possible but, as absurd as this sounds, when it's impractical to be small try not to.

case in point my achtschiben. cant fire ramjet propery using mach knight lg but uses it well when i use greinaut lg. looks cooler too!
Have a few things to say.

Joint parts: I agree with this. Their cost is just too big for what they do, but they serve as good stat boosters for poepl who don't want to tune/have yet to tune.

Fatrobos: ramjet launcher, beam rifle, saggy's railguns are among some of the weapons that absolutely derp if the bot is too small; try to be as small as you can whenever possible but, as absurd as this sounds, when it's impractical to be small try not to.

case in point my achtschiben. cant fire ramjet propery using mach knight lg but uses it well when i use greinaut lg. looks cooler too!







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PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   The "Quit Doing That" Guide - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 11:15 am

@yilx wrote:
Have a few things to say.

Joint parts: I agree with this. Their cost is just too big for what they do, but they serve as good stat boosters for poepl who don't want to tune/have yet to tune.

Fatrobos: ramjet launcher, beam rifle, saggy's railguns are among some of the weapons that absolutely derp if the bot is too small; try to be as small as you can whenever possible but, as absurd as this sounds, when it's impractical to be small try not to.

case in point my achtschiben. cant fire ramjet propery using mach knight lg but uses it well when i use greinaut lg. looks cooler too!


Joint parts are good if they come with a slot, lol.
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