Cosmic Break
Welcome! to the Unofficial Fan Forums Please read the rules as soon as you can. It will only take a few minutes of your time to do so. If you are not willing to read them, you might not be here for long! Enjoy your stay and don't get into trouble.

Click here for Forum Rules

Click here for Cosmic Break Guides



 
HomeSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 The "Quit Doing That" Guide

Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
AuthorMessage
Kitouski
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
Kitouski

Male Posts : 1054
Join date : 2010-12-23
Age : 26
Location : US

PostSubject: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:34 am

Making a small guide that every new person to the game should read. Instead of making a guide on things to build, things to do, things to try, I'm going to compile a list of things I see that no one should EVER do that people just insist on doing over and over and over.





UC BSJs and AMJs are terrible pretty much always

This is refering to Prop, Rear Wing and Wing Plus specifically.

Let me give a general run-down of how much tunes are costing you:

Basic +1 stat tune = 5 cost a stat.
"High" tune = 7.5 cost a stat.
"High Alpha" tune = 5 cost a stat.
"High Beta" tune = 2.5 cost a stat.
"Great" tune = 10 cost a stat.
"Great Alpha" tune = 6.6 cost a stat.
Combo tune = 10 cost a stat.
High Combo Tune = 11.25 cost a stat.


Now let's look at these three different parts:

Wing Plus = 15 cost a stat.
Rear Wing = 20 cost a stat.
Prop = 16.6 cost a stat.


This pretty much makes it completely impossible to tune worse then what these parts supply to you, yet I see them used all the time, even as high up as star ranks. If you're completely new to the game, you have an excuse, but the reason stops there. Okay, I can kind of understand if you're using Wing Plus's as a sit-in so you don't die because you move at derp speed, but those training wheels do need to come off as soon as possible. When it was already bad enough that they're so cost ineffective that no amount of poor tuning can compare to it (saying 'negatives come from some of those tunes though!' doesn't count, negative stats come from the joints too), you couldn't even "Run Alpha" or "Boost Alpha" your way into being this inefficient. The Rear Wing and Prop also up your size by a considerable amount. Not so much the Wing Plus's, but it still appears they add a small amount to your hitbox.






Build Arm BS belongs on nothing

Not only have I seen this thing on bots, but I've seen it most commonly on Lily Rains.... why? Why, why, why would you do that to yourself? Especially on Lily, she already has a subweapon you're paying for that kicks the crap out of the BS. Let's find a BS that gives the same number of stats and health... Victory1 BS for a random one, or Locomotive X. They are 20 cost. Build Arm BS is 45 cost, you're paying 25 cost for a cheap weapon right? I would make a joke out of that line and cleverly jump into the next paragraph, but that would be insulting things like Handy Magnums or even freakin' Short Swords.

I dare you to put on a Build Arm BS and then enter Training. I did it a couple of times before writing this to make sure I didn't overlook anything I remembered from using it back when I was a triangle and down rank, and the only thing I overlooked is that even computer bots in training can dodge it. I never thought I'd have to aim a weapon that should be homing so hard in my life. And you know I'm struggling to justify a weapon when I compare a sub homing weapon to a aimed main weapon, but hey, Bazookas have to be aimed too right? The BS only travels slower, have way, way, way slower intervals, less ammo and much less force then a bazooka with the only side effect being a small extra amount of cost, so what's the prob- oh wait...






Stop being fat.

This means stop turning a potential this;

Spoiler:
 

Into this;

Spoiler:
 

Still not obvious? Let me help you;

Spoiler:
 

Mobility is nearly always more important then more tec and str... but that doesn't mean anything if you look like you lag irl. Yea, there are some larger parts that are good, okay, it gives decent health sometimes, but that's still not an excuse for using Snailbot LGs on your Katana Max. Having a small hitbox is important, it means less damage. The less damage you take, the longer it takes for you to die. The longer it takes for you to die the more damage you can dish out. I can't think of a single advantage to being easier to be hit and many people don't take this into consideration... which brings me to my next thing.






Default parts are the not the only parts.

Nearly any bot is not at it's best directly out of the box, and I believe this is the leading contributor to OP-bot-idius. An Aquila Girl doesn't have anything to swap and she has an idea behind her, so she's definitely a great bot! Vanguard has a giant sword that hurts a lot, so he must be a great bot! LazFlamme? AHH, NO CORE MOVE TO SPAM AND REMOVABLE PARTS, HAO I DO DIS.

Pretty much anything can use a new part swap. Playing your gunning Cosmo Kaiser? Get rid of those str AMs. Using a Sturbanger? Slim down to stop being an easy target. Froglander? Build Arm AMs or Beezel AMs would actually serve him better because he certainly doesn't need the str.

I see too many bots being used right out of the box and then discarded before someone goes all caps rage on how none of the bots in the game works. I thought this game was advertised as a moe mecha customization PvP MMO. There are really only two arguments I've seen put up for this that I can go, "yea, okay." at. One is the obvious making completely for fun or silly builds. The other one is that they don't want their moebot looking like this by the end of it;

Spoiler:
 

Ffff, ewww Gorilla Girl. Even with the moebot complaint though, sometimes better moebot parts can be swapped about and better parts can find new homes without making your 'once sexy LazFlamme' into 'eww, it's coming at me.






Sometimes there's just better alternatives.


Sometimes there are choices in weapons, things to get creative with and things to have fun with, and then there are weapons that just have better alternatives period, down to the numbers. This list might grow, but here's a small list of things that come to mind.

- If you can use a Buckler over a Viper Shield, you probably should. Both the Buckler and the Viper Shield have the exact same amount of health before they break but the Buckler is 20 cost less. Unless you need the extra slots from a slotted Viper because you don't have slotted Bucklers, or you're using a L bot, there's no reason to use a Viper. "It has better coverage" isn't the best argument considering if they break before you die, they still served their purpose, keeping you from the exact same amount of damage in the end.

- AIRs are the only things that should be using Minizooks, ever. Mini Zooks take away 1 more wlk and 1 more fly then both Micro and Handy Zook. Handy Zook is 20 cost cheaper and Micro Zooks. The force and bullet size is better on Handy Zooks while Micro Zooks travel faster and has a high ammo count.

- If you're an AIR, use a Power Shooter over Ballistic Shooter always. The redeeming quality of Ballistia Shooter is that other things then AIR can use it, otherwise Power Shooter is better in nearly every way for AIR bots itself. For a bit of a comparison;

Power Shooter - 140 cost, -1 str, 13 force, 370 ammo, 350 range, 430 speed, 640 int
Ballista Shooter - 180 cost, -1 str, -1 wlk, 16 force, 340 ammo, 250 range, 380 speed, 540 int


That's really all I can think of at the moment.






6 swords is not better then 1.

I'm going to talk about something I like to call "mega-meleeing". Mega meleeing looks something like this;

Spoiler:
 

Or this;

Spoiler:
 

Or please god no, this;

Spoiler:
 

More melee is pretty much always worse then less. Take that Mighty Byne for example, I bet he moves at like 9 wlk. Each AM costs 40 more when they have the pilebunkers compared to non-pilebunker Mighty Byne AMs. That looks like an Ogre Sword, another 140 cost and -5 to your stats. Kamui Staff is another 160 cost and a loss of one stat. By achieving the status of "mega-meleeing" you have effectively made your bot cost 380 more and lost 6 stat points.

Let's look at things that do it better at less cost;

Vanguard Fencer = 160 cost.
Blazed Baron AM5 = 180 cost.
Two Red Squealer AMs = 190 cost.

Did I mention the second one has a hand open and the third has two open?

The point is that meleeing while you melee so you can melee while you melee isn't necessarily a good thing. This is NOT me saying using more then one melee weapon is a bad idea, it's just that you should have a reason to make your bot unreasonably expensive. Having one Haku Sword, you would probably perform nearly as good as if you had two. It is in no way, shape or form worth limiting yourself to mid-range to be picked off at 160 cost.

When you give your bot a melee weapon, be prepared to meet bots that have better melee then you if you're not an Ivis, Vanguard, etc. You cannot make up for that weakness by giving your bot more things to swing, the only thing that does is forfeit your only advantages over melee bots; being able to shot them when you can't melee them, and being cheaper then them when all you do is bloat yourself AND do worse then them.






Love thy support bots.

Support bots have a hard time playing this game with the people who kill trees and steal wonderbits right in front of the obviously designated healer. There really is no reason for this to be happening, but it does anyways. I got in a debate once with someone I know over this who actually thought healers were "outdated", saying suiciding is the way of the meta to do well and that's why he doesn't concern himself with helping SUP classes. I never facepalmed so hard in my life.

Some people don't understand why the actual destroying of trees should be left to the medic if they're actually around and why they can't just do themselves and bring the WBs. The actual damaging of the tree also charges their WB, and their repair bit getting charged sooner is probably more important then you getting your Slayer Bit charged. A lot of simple, lower level or untuned builds of healing support, or even just plain chibis can't just fly into battle as well as you can, instead they're left to do what they do best; keeping you alive. That's kind of hard when everyone and their mother hinders them.

A good team should help their support on their team, and in return that support should do whatever it can to help that team, down to passing out the other items from the trees that they won't be using, making even less of a reason to get so defensive about destroying trees rather then the support. There needs to be more of an application with the players who are running bots meant to keep you alive and what's lacking is people who show that. (That's not to say there are also plenty of players who need to learn how to support better.)





Not sure what's coming next.


Last edited by Kitouski on Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:48 pm; edited 8 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.kito.winterwing.com
Cybernetic
Regular Poster
Regular Poster
Cybernetic

Male Posts : 452
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 22

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:30 am

This is actually very useful, I'm gonna have to change some bots around thanks to this, and thank you for possibly saving me the frustration of dying over and over again as my ART types.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
fggt
Flat chests are JUSTICE!
fggt

Male Posts : 5770
Join date : 2011-02-03
Age : 27
Location : A certain boss's room

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:02 am

Is thoar LG included in fat parts list??

Like this:
Spoiler:
 
Back to top Go down
View user profile
AnTi90d
Grand Poster
Grand Poster
AnTi90d

Male Posts : 3282
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 1005
Location : U.S.S.A - United Socialist States of America

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:48 pm

Hah.. I read the thread title.. and I immediately thought of a match I had last night. I was in an artillery bot and a Blazed Baron started making tracks right for me. I fired a few shots at him and boosted up and away. He continued pursuit and I had other people firing at me.. to make a long story short.. he bonked me on the head with that normal BB wand thing.. when it wasn't even on fire. I laughed out loud and thought to myself, "Why did you do that, guy?" while he was being mercilessly slaughtered by my teammates.

One thing to mention about keeping bot sizes small: for some weapons you have to think about where the bullets come out at. I tried to put Greinaut arms on a bot with Armed Build Arm legs.. and it didn't work out to well. The arm barrels were below the ground and my shots just made sparklies at my feet.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hellenisti
Regular Poster
Regular Poster
Hellenisti

Male Posts : 184
Join date : 2011-03-27
Age : 27
Location : Up your ass.

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:59 pm

@Kitouski wrote:
I can't think of a single advantage to being easier to be hit and many people don't take this into consideration...

Think of 40TGH melee bots with Stun Regain and a Revenge: Crimson Veil tune; also, think of the amazing stats Baltheon LG gives despite its low cost.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
BNOISE
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
BNOISE

Male Posts : 1216
Join date : 2011-01-08
Age : 27
Location : Home

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:13 pm

Wing plus gives me extra tune slots for my 40 fly. Iono about you, but I just need 40 fly and I really don't care how I get it cause I ain't coming down ever again. Laughing
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fireflywater
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
Fireflywater

Male Posts : 1220
Join date : 2011-05-22
Age : 23
Location : The Undead Daily Garapon

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:23 pm

This thread makes me really, really sad. You only pointed out the disadvantaged of x and didn't point out any advantages.
I'll fill in, then.

Joint Parts: Tune slots, temporary stat measures before tuning.
Build Arm BS: Low cost sub weapon, one of the few missiles S ARTs can use.
"Fat"ness: This one makes me really sad. You just insulted one of the best L sized LGs in the game. The single most best for UC players. Usually, larger parts have better stats at the cost of simply being large. Mountaiz LGs add tons of HP along with 3 WLK.
Default Parts: Okay, I can't rebuttal this one. I don't know, cosmetics?

Honestly, make this thread not sound like a "BASH BASH BE MAJORITY BASH" thread. Please.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
BNOISE
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
BNOISE

Male Posts : 1216
Join date : 2011-01-08
Age : 27
Location : Home

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:29 pm

@Fireflywater wrote:

Default Parts: Doesn't count if you have a 3s bot with all default parts that is good enough to start tuning without the need for swapping anything - aka Seraph Crimrose
fix'd
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Suguri
God Poster
God Poster
Suguri

Female Posts : 7765
Join date : 2011-01-07
Age : 20
Location : Japan

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:33 pm

@Fireflywater wrote:

Joint Parts: Tune slots, temporary stat measures before tuning.
He said pretty much always and already gave the training wheels example.

@Fireflywater wrote:

Build Arm BS: Low cost sub weapon, one of the few missiles S ARTs can use.
Also horribly inaccurate with horrible ammo and horrible homing, as well as horrible damage if it does manage to hit, as well as horrible stats for its cost. It's definitely one of the worst parts in the game.

@Fireflywater wrote:

"Fat"ness: This one makes me really sad. You just insulted one of the best L sized LGs in the game. The single most best for UC players. Usually, larger parts have better stats at the cost of simply being large. Mountaiz LGs add tons of HP along with 3 WLK.
Fact of the matter is, an Accel Saber with Skullroid LG will live a lot longer than an Accel Saber with Big Mountaiz LG, even though it has 75 less HP.

@Fireflywater wrote:

Honestly, make this thread not sound like a "BASH BASH BE MAJORITY BASH" thread. Please.
It's not a question of majority, it's a question of fact.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Midona
Adept Poster
Adept Poster
Midona

Male Posts : 608
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 29

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:39 pm

No no and no.

Being a fatass can be useful. Why? Because most legs give around 30 hp. Big moutainz (and others LL) legs are fat but give an insane 90 hp for a bit more cost (in your cost calc 10 hp ~ 2 cost). Of course you're easier to aim, but against others ART you're MORE performant unless they are fast or hopping (but hoppers are fags, don't bother them).
Example : I have a Herzanius (don't remember the name, the plant bot which does lazooooooooooooor) with Baltheon legs (a fatass) and two Large zooka (a big fatass). I worked on it about 5 minutes, no tunes netheir hard cartridge choice, and merely do 2-3 stars

Build with Arm BS is godly on Canon baller !

Howtizer AMJ (don't remember the name) can give decent damage output overall.

Defaults parts are not the only part, but they are often well designed for the bots beside the head which is nearly always out of the subject, and often in RT bots (best example : amateus parts, all perfects beside head).

It's cool to give advices, but don't make players playin like Vyolefag. We got enough all black bots and hoppers fags.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
BNOISE
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
BNOISE

Male Posts : 1216
Join date : 2011-01-08
Age : 27
Location : Home

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:55 pm

BTW that saggit with the legs is wrongly built.
Most newbs are smart enough to stick on more guns for alpha strike.

A newb saggit that is more properly newb built is



What you have actually done there in that pic without having multiple guns is a pure abomination.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kitouski
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
Kitouski

Male Posts : 1054
Join date : 2010-12-23
Age : 26
Location : US

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:00 pm

Thanks for reminding me to write something on Misside AMs, lol. I think I'll see about adding a couple more right now.

Other then that, a lot of the other posts above me make me want to facepalm so hard I melt my face off...
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.kito.winterwing.com
Fireflywater
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
Fireflywater

Male Posts : 1220
Join date : 2011-05-22
Age : 23
Location : The Undead Daily Garapon

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:00 pm

I don't want to bother arguing with Suguri. I already know he won't listen and continue rambling about how x is useless and how we all should hop. But I'll just leave this here.

Everything has an advantage and disadvantage. There is not a single part that is 100% crap or useless. Even the most unusable part has an advantage somewhere and even the most best part has a disadvantage somewhere. Anybody can figure out a use for something, they just have to play around until they find it. That said, most people here don't possess the brain power to find stuff like this by themselves. It just requires patience, thinking, and... well... more patience.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Midona
Adept Poster
Adept Poster
Midona

Male Posts : 608
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 29

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:19 pm

@Kitouski wrote:
Other then that, a lot of the other posts above me make me want to facepalm so hard I melt my face off...

You know I'm right. You knoooooooôôôôôôw I'm right.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Intet
Adept Poster
Adept Poster


Posts : 825
Join date : 2010-10-02

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:37 pm

Actually there is a pretty good reason to use mountaiz legs on a saggitary, so you can be tall enough to shoot over your damn teammates, and small hills. That has to be the most over looked reason to be big right there. While being small is great, it won't help you shoot over the lands on your team. Blocked shots are infuriating. There are reasons for both, so pick which one you like more.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kitouski
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
Kitouski

Male Posts : 1054
Join date : 2010-12-23
Age : 26
Location : US

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:42 pm

The amount of disagreeing in this thread is painfully insightful.

@Midona wrote:
@Kitouski wrote:
Other then that, a lot of the other posts above me make me want to facepalm so hard I melt my face off...

You know I'm right. You knoooooooôôôôôôw I'm right.
Canon Baller already has a subweapon that imo is better then Build Arm BS because you can at least rapid fire it and you're already forced to pay for it. Canon Baller is hardly a good bot anyways, he's just fun to dink on.

A few default part examples on were the parts don't belong on the bot is Pawnger, who would never need str which most of his parts give, Aquila who is full of inappropriate parts, Tristar+ who's AMs don't pair with the core whatsoever and the list goes on.

Amateus has conflicting parts, a BS that lowers wlk while most of the other parts give wlk. As you said, his HD doesn't belong either. A hopping Amateus would want to be smaller, thus slimming down and removing the LGs, while one that focused on fly wouldn't want the LGs, or even AMs at all. And an Amateus with no mobility carts at and decides to tough it out with just some high walk is a dead Amateus.


@Intet

You're probably too close to bottom ground if you're having a severe teammate view block issue. Though I see the argument, if anything decided to target you specifically, you're extremely easy pickings.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.kito.winterwing.com
Intet
Adept Poster
Adept Poster


Posts : 825
Join date : 2010-10-02

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:55 pm

@Kitouski wrote:
The amount of disagreeing in this thread is painfully insightful.

@Intet

You're probably too close to bottom ground if you're having a severe teammate view block issue. Though I see the argument, if anything decided to target you specifically, you're extremely easy pickings.

Depends heavily on what's targeting you. Then again, since you're supposed to be shooting people in the face at draw distance...But what do I care, I have a genbura now.

I've always viewed size as more of a psychological deal than anything else, people just shoot at big things regardless of what they are, and smaller bots hide amongst the crowd easier.

People disagree with you for a few reasons. They've found uses for parts most people would deem useless (although some are just plain bad), some parts are used simply for stats and the ease of obtaining them, and others for aesthetics. Since a large part of the game is making cool looking robots, going out to say people are bad for some part choices isn't exactly the best way to get people to agree with you. Especially when some have made it work for them. There is also the fact a few people will take away things from this that lead to a homogenization in bot creation, such as the thought that everything must be as small as possible.

That's not to say you don't raise some valid points, and in fact I agree with quite a few of them. It's just that it's presented in a 'end all, be all' manner that is probably going to inflame people, and risk stifling creativity by making people ignore things that could possibly have a use some were.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CapeMike
Master Poster
Master Poster
CapeMike

Male Posts : 2079
Join date : 2010-09-29
Age : 46
Location : Chattanooga, TN, USA

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:27 pm

...and in my case, the Pulsardio's sheer Bd size makes it a prime target at short range...there's no making THAT thing any smaller! Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Suguri
God Poster
God Poster
Suguri

Female Posts : 7765
Join date : 2011-01-07
Age : 20
Location : Japan

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:28 pm

@Fireflywater wrote:
I don't want to bother arguing with Suguri. I already know he won't listen and continue rambling about how x is useless and how we all should hop. But I'll just leave this here.

Everything has an advantage and disadvantage. There is not a single part that is 100% crap or useless. Even the most unusable part has an advantage somewhere and even the most best part has a disadvantage somewhere. Anybody can figure out a use for something, they just have to play around until they find it. That said, most people here don't possess the brain power to find stuff like this by themselves. It just requires patience, thinking, and... well... more patience.
As usual you're completely missing the point of my argument, but whatever. I have better things to do than write paragraphs about why kitou's right. Final statement, I can't think of a single situation where I would use build arm bs over an alternative missile or BS, and while I can think of a few things Big Mountaiz LG would be good on I can also think of multiple LGs that will outperform it in the same situations.

@Fireflywater wrote:
I already know he won't listen and continue rambling about how we all should hop.
I lol'd hard at this.

@CapeMike wrote:
...and in my case, the Pulsardio's sheer Bd size makes it a prime target at short range...there's no making THAT thing any smaller! Smile
I like taller supports more anyway. They get bumped less, and the higher bit location means both a larger heal field and the ability to heal a power spot without jumping. And with Pulsardio the added height helps out with missile aim.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kitouski
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
Kitouski

Male Posts : 1054
Join date : 2010-12-23
Age : 26
Location : US

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:34 pm

If you've tried chasing down a high fly Seraph or even Beezel and then tried chasing down a high fly Aquila or Big Mountianz, I promise it's a lot, lot more then psychological. Shooting a Frog is a lot harder then shooting a Mighty Byne.

This thread was to point in a direction of slightly more competitive playing. I even kept aesthetics in mind and mentioned that within the "defaults" part page, and even included if you're having fun, there's no right or wrong way to do anything. Really, this isn't here to tell people how to play, but as a groupings of things that are facts for competitive play.

I thought I only went very lightly on the "Fat Bots" part and never said there is no advantage to bigger parts. I simply said 'I can't think of a single advantage to being easier to be hit', which is a price you need to consider when you're considering the gain of larger parts. That's a pretty wild card way of saying it though because then someone can go, "well 50 or so more health sounds nice, I think that's worth the size." and there's absolutely no justifying this.

It is a fact that a Vanguard will hit you much more often if you have something like Big Mountainz LGs on instead of something like Mach Knight LGs. Once you get stuck in those hits, you're going to take more then one, and let's face it, the point of getting more health on Big Mountainz LGs is null and void the moment you step out into the battle field and take 50 damage. You're easier to hit, much, much easier to melee and easier to gain attention.

This entire paragraph is going to sound pretty insulting, but I really mean it with all due respect but the responses thus far leave me mind blown, it's ridiculiously insightful. All of this feels like common sense stuff down to the point of were it is unarguable, it's breaking down game mechanics and numbers in a computer game, there's nothing magical about and no amount of "skill" can change the fact that there's a handicap on you. That if you make yourself hitable, you're going to get hit. If you pay 15 cost for each fly stat you get, you're going to be wasting cost even with the most inefficient tunes. That if you leave Cosmo Kaiser AMs on a non-melee Cosmo Kaiser AC, you're going to be wasting stats and capa to tune it back.

I'm not campaigning how bots should be built from the ground up, I'm just listing a couple of things you should never end up with. In the end if someone wants to make their bot look nice that's fine, and if they want to have fun with it, that's fine too, but I feel like I'm not even shoving my opinion out there, I'm just digging out the facts. I'm also not trying to homogenize everyone into one molded character... though, it's funny that the people who post negatively also mock people like Suguri, Vyo, and apparently anyone with black colored bots like XZ, all three of them known to do irrefutably good in arena whether they like it or not. And Suguri hardly plays like an XZ, and same goes to XZ to Vyo and back to Suguri, they're not "indistinguishable", yet their the one's mocked. It's just flat out ironic.

@Fireflywater wrote:
I already know he won't listen and continue rambling about how we all should hop.

No, no, Firefly, you go it all wrong, I'M the one who rambles and makes giant as hell posts no one reads to prove I have nothing better to do, not Suguri. He just makes builds, short sentences, points at posts and doesn't afraid of anything.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.kito.winterwing.com
808
Newbie
Newbie
808

Male Posts : 41
Join date : 2011-07-23
Location : The restaurant at the end of the universe.

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:48 pm

@Intet wrote:
Actually there is a pretty good reason to use mountaiz legs on a saggitary, so you can be tall enough to shoot over your damn teammates, and small hills. That has to be the most over looked reason to be big right there. While being small is great, it won't help you shoot over the lands on your team. Blocked shots are infuriating. There are reasons for both, so pick which one you like more.

SO YOU CAN BE TALL ENOUGH TO SHOOT OVER TEAMMATES?!

... So what you're saying is actually:

"I wish to be a much bigger target then all other available targets."
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Yokura
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
Yokura

Posts : 1237
Join date : 2010-12-31

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:49 pm

+10000 for Guide.

End game builds should never ever everrr have those joint parts, unless you're really starved for slots, then, go get the RT charge campaign AMJ's. Wing AMJ should always, always be temporary. Build AM BS is good for absolutely nothing. @_@ Every time I see it on anything, especially Lily, makes me want to bang my head against the wall so hard.

Whoever said Build arm BS is godly on anything..... orz #em6

@Fireflywater wrote:
I don't want to bother arguing with Suguri. I already know he won't listen and continue rambling about how x is useless and how we all should hop. But I'll just leave this here.

Suguri has the title of being a build genius for very good reasons. I really wouldn't have an issue if you were arguing a specific point, but saying, implying, even hinting, that Suguri does at bad job at giving advice in general, I can't understand how you ever thought that.

Perhaps you're mistaking what we mean by useless. Wing AMJ's are terrible as far as terms of efficiency, but they are far from un-usable. I use them on plenty of bots simply because they are easily accessible and I'm too lazy to tune. That does NOT excuse it from being shit terrible as far as cost and stat efficiency. Which makes them pretty much useless in any terms of efficiency.

Efficiency is vital to any endgame build, even more so if you're limited to UC.


-------------

Parts may not be USELESS, but if there is something that can do it the job better, more efficiently, then there is no real reason to use an inferior part.

If the reason for usefulness of any of the parts stated in the guide is anything but efficiency, then you're picking at it for the wrong reason. The only remotely valid point defending large legs on maxis was to help with aiming, but that doesn't change the fact that your bot will still be taken apart if anything decides to poke at you.

-------

Oh and... If anyone is still saying that build Arm BS is useful at all, go stick it on something and go into training arena >_> Or take it into real arena. If you still don't see it, cmere so I can demonstrate it personally. ]: Using Build Arm BS for anything serious is like taking Crim AM2 and using it as your main melee weapon, and gladiator/slow/grappler tuning it.

----------

@808 wrote:

... So what you're saying is actually:

"I wish to be a much bigger target then all other available targets."

LOL. <3
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://yokura.deviantart.com/
efaj
Newbie
Newbie


Posts : 33
Join date : 2011-02-01

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:12 pm

For one, I agree with this guide... it just makes sense. And I like the advice it's giving and this has really set me into tuning, even if only for 1s parts, instead of keeping my "training wheels" (I use Prop BSJs and Wing AMJs a lot)

Quote :
Going to rant on why "super-wielding" melee weapons as I'll call it is absolute silliness without an effective comboing plan (that doesn't require asura AMJs, 2 Mighty Byne AMs and 2 swords) and why Metal Slayers suck.
I'm really looking forward at that part. I guess by "super-wielding" you mean stuff like Haku and other large and costly melees. And by combo, I remember my thrusting domiclown of doom: A domiclown with Domi AM, Accel Saber LG, Red Squealer AM, (and maybe I'm missing one more sub weapon) which was my first attempt at a "combo plan": AOE melee and unending attacks that thrust me to run away or pursuit.

Quote :
so you can be tall enough to shoot over your damn teammates, and small hills.
Lately I've been playing around with a Super UC Garapon Pawn Blitzer, or whatever his name is. I exchanged some of it's parts to aim for WLK, TGH and some TEC and gave him the damn awesome "Ninja star" BS (can't remember it's name)
It's awesome for exactly that, and since the bot is sooo damn small, I can hide behind anything, specially ARTs, and still hit anyone due to it's awesome trajectory. I've only been team killed >.> and that was when I learned that hurricanes damage even if for few damage.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
FireKiller87
Ace Poster
Ace Poster
FireKiller87

Male Posts : 1708
Join date : 2011-03-08
Location : Blowing FC Seraph out of my airspace

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:15 pm

Gonna have to agree with almost everything that Kitou is saying here. Efficiency is a big part of builds, and if you're not efficient, you're dragging on your team, not to mention fucking with your own score and dragging your own play down. Even if you're skilled, if you're not efficient, you're not performing at your best.

One thing about Wing Plus, I got them on my Seraph, and it freed up a lot of space for TEC, saving me a couple slots.
"Seraph AMJ build O_o":
 

Before you say anything, keep in mind that I prefer not to limit myself to 99 seconds worth of effective combat before my Seraph is neutered. 30 TEC should be a breakpoint for Minizooka, don't have the calc open atm so I can't confirm it.
Without the AMJs I'm down to 32 FLY. Not bad, I know, and I really could do without them, but I prefer to have high flight speed so I don't NEED the Seraph Wings to fight. The AMJs only add a slight increase to hitbox at her sides and the spaces between her head.

If you need to visualize this...well, here she is:
"My Seraph, in all her hitbox glory":
 

And in any case, I can simply remove the AMJs to cut off 70 cost after being fully tuned, bringing my Seraph's cost down to 1120 while still having 30 TEC 32 FLY 4 WLK. I think 36 FLY is the second to last break(excluding the obvious 40 FLY, which is luxury), the last being 38, so it might not hurt to keep Wing Plus AMJs on in certain conditions. The others are fugly, and unless you're using an Alphag(cough cough-Asura AMJ with that disgusting hitbox-cough cough), they're basically crutches; use em when you need em, toss em in a corner when you don't.

@efaj: Super-wielding means...I think it means holding as many melee weapons as you can(involves heavy use of Asura AMJs).
The shuriken-shooting BS is Shadow Hunter BS.

EDIT: Every time you see my Seraph, Yoku, make sure you ram your head into the wall for me :3
Also note that if you Proto Boost tune a Wing Plus AMJ, your cost efficiency per AMJ is improved to 11.667 rounded per +FLY(so if you wield two Proto Boost-tuned AMJs, you take 70 cost in exchange for -2 WLK, +6 FLY.). Not as good as tuning, I know. But hey, if you can use em to get another stat up, to where it couldn't otherwise reach, and then rip off the AMJs/BSJs with little or no effect on your play...well, by all means.


Last edited by FireKiller87 on Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:30 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
xzpwnz
Legendary Poster
Legendary Poster
xzpwnz

Male Posts : 4686
Join date : 2010-06-05
Age : 104

PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:22 pm

Why do people stick vipers on those things
Doesn't cover shit
That's why I replaced bt's viper saggi 3 with a fireflower
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The "Quit Doing That" Guide   

Back to top Go down
 
The "Quit Doing That" Guide
Back to top 
Page 1 of 8Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Cosmic Break :: Cosmic Break :: Guides-
Jump to:  




Copyright©2007-2014 CyberStep, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Theme by, Sean

Free forum | © phpBB | Free forum support | Contact | Report an abuse | Forumotion.com