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 [General] Weakness Analyses

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knyx
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:03 pm

@necrio wrote:
@knyx wrote:
@Nisa wrote:


Locomotive hit eve = 15 dmg

Eve hit locomotive = 100 dmg



1vs1

lol u mad?

Eve shots penetrate everything except solid terrain. Rocks/trees= solid terrain.

Still have to get those mortars to hit. But eventually she'll catch up unless you can afford to 40 fly him.
not exactly 1 on 1 but loco's big brother, snailbot, can outrange EVEs and pelt them with his missiles. Of course in 1 on 1 situation he's dead.

*Cough*tundrawallsnailing*cough*
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:41 pm

Snailbot shouldn't be considered a serious solution to anything, all it takes is a single tap to the side for the missiles to miss completely, and a non-braindead EVE isn't going to be standing still.

Also, you can actually fire through trees at the right angle. I farm three trees at once with a blitz blaster all the time in green field and that one forest map.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:07 pm

@Suguri wrote:
Snailbot shouldn't be considered a serious solution to anything, all it takes is a single tap to the side for the missiles to miss completely, and a non-braindead EVE isn't going to be standing still.

Also, you can actually fire through trees at the right angle. I farm three trees at once with a blitz blaster all the time in green field and that one forest map.

Landscape trees, not ghosttrees, landscapes are solid. (only if the tree is a certain size (protip, big trees > small trees), some trees are transparent and you can walk through those, as well as shoot)
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:47 am

@knyx wrote:
@Suguri wrote:
Snailbot shouldn't be considered a serious solution to anything, all it takes is a single tap to the side for the missiles to miss completely, and a non-braindead EVE isn't going to be standing still.

Also, you can actually fire through trees at the right angle. I farm three trees at once with a blitz blaster all the time in green field and that one forest map.

Landscape trees, not ghosttrees, landscapes are solid. (only if the tree is a certain size (protip, big trees > small trees), some trees are transparent and you can walk through those, as well as shoot)

My best idea so far is to wait till they're distracted shooting at some noob dumb enough to 1v1 them, then hit the eve from behind. i can usually kill 1/2 their hp before they figure out that THERE'S SOMEONE RIGHT BE-FREAKING-HIND THEM! for some reason, most eve
s fall for this every time. not all, but most.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon May 02, 2011 7:59 pm

The dreaded

TOYBOX GIRL

Discuss now!
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon May 02, 2011 8:10 pm

@Glass wrote:
The dreaded

TOYBOX GIRL

Discuss now!

every bot that ve fast enough and got meele weapon or range weapon with high dps
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon May 02, 2011 10:23 pm

Aquila Girl with Slayer Bit
Fast melee that can act before she counters with headmissile + knockback
Durable bots with blast guard

That's about all I've got, she's annoying as hell even when her pilot is an incompetent oaf.

EDIT: Might be worth noting Misty, Baltheon, and Aigis Baltheon. Aigis in particular should be able to tank quite a few missiles with his shield while returning fire with x2 stardust alpha or something.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Tue May 03, 2011 12:09 am

@Suguri wrote:
Aquila Girl with Slayer Bit
Fast melee that can act before she counters with headmissile + knockback
Durable bots with blast guard

That's about all I've got, she's annoying as hell even when her pilot is an incompetent oaf.

EDIT: Might be worth noting Misty, Baltheon, and Aigis Baltheon. Aigis in particular should be able to tank quite a few missiles with his shield while returning fire with x2 stardust alpha or something.

If Ah-chan just circles over Toy-chan while full boosting when gauge gets low, her homing blaster does the rest. It was good enough before, but after they buffed it (unnecessarily) it's totally imba.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Tue May 03, 2011 12:23 am

@knyx wrote:
@Suguri wrote:
Aquila Girl with Slayer Bit
Fast melee that can act before she counters with headmissile + knockback
Durable bots with blast guard

That's about all I've got, she's annoying as hell even when her pilot is an incompetent oaf.

EDIT: Might be worth noting Misty, Baltheon, and Aigis Baltheon. Aigis in particular should be able to tank quite a few missiles with his shield while returning fire with x2 stardust alpha or something.

If Ah-chan just circles over Toy-chan while full boosting when gauge gets low, her homing blaster does the rest. It was good enough before, but after they buffed it (unnecessarily) it's totally imba.

now ppl have fun spam click for the win, not even ve the right aiming, only need direction

freaking accuracy homming weapon bot

Aquila girl
Toy box girl
Albatreos
Nicole Malice
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Tue May 03, 2011 5:03 am

@SkyPanic wrote:
@knyx wrote:
@Suguri wrote:
Aquila Girl with Slayer Bit
Fast melee that can act before she counters with headmissile + knockback
Durable bots with blast guard

That's about all I've got, she's annoying as hell even when her pilot is an incompetent oaf.

EDIT: Might be worth noting Misty, Baltheon, and Aigis Baltheon. Aigis in particular should be able to tank quite a few missiles with his shield while returning fire with x2 stardust alpha or something.

If Ah-chan just circles over Toy-chan while full boosting when gauge gets low, her homing blaster does the rest. It was good enough before, but after they buffed it (unnecessarily) it's totally imba.

now ppl have fun spam click for the win, not even ve the right aiming, only need direction

freaking accuracy homming weapon bot

Aquila girl
Toy box girl
Albatreos
Nicole Malice

Na, albatreos's sub homing accuracy is crap, they are like missile launchers where you have to manual launch in the enemy direction then it will start homing BUT albatreos launch it in a weird way made it simply loses it's homing immediately which is stupid =.= (kind of like the nerf snailbot missile we have now currently)
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Tue May 03, 2011 8:40 am

EVE TBG can long range her any day. Any TBG on your team should be concentrating on AIR's and EVEs only in order to be an effective team player

Hoppers I use patty lop best against them. Her high rate of fire along with her puppets make for great dps against hoppers

Toybox Girl She has a delay on her "Retreat" skill that makes her recoil across the map fast. So use this to get in there and stun lock her with melee before she can use it. When she becomes stun locked from melee, it's almost impossible to engage the "Retreat" skill until you stop.



This is only going off of my experience.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Tue May 03, 2011 12:06 pm

@knyx wrote:
@Suguri wrote:
Aquila Girl with Slayer Bit
Fast melee that can act before she counters with headmissile + knockback
Durable bots with blast guard

That's about all I've got, she's annoying as hell even when her pilot is an incompetent oaf.

EDIT: Might be worth noting Misty, Baltheon, and Aigis Baltheon. Aigis in particular should be able to tank quite a few missiles with his shield while returning fire with x2 stardust alpha or something.

If Ah-chan just circles over Toy-chan while full boosting when gauge gets low, her homing blaster does the rest. It was good enough before, but after they buffed it (unnecessarily) it's totally imba.
Don't you know? they did it for Balance issues........balance my -(language not fit for public consumtpion)-

That ain't balance thats imbalance. when you can dodge most other homing weapons, and can't dodge a simple blaster shot that homes in qiuckly and accurately, ti gets to the point of hoping the enemy player just sucks at aiming.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Tue May 03, 2011 4:44 pm

@Raal wrote:
@knyx wrote:
@Suguri wrote:
Aquila Girl with Slayer Bit
Fast melee that can act before she counters with headmissile + knockback
Durable bots with blast guard

That's about all I've got, she's annoying as hell even when her pilot is an incompetent oaf.

EDIT: Might be worth noting Misty, Baltheon, and Aigis Baltheon. Aigis in particular should be able to tank quite a few missiles with his shield while returning fire with x2 stardust alpha or something.

If Ah-chan just circles over Toy-chan while full boosting when gauge gets low, her homing blaster does the rest. It was good enough before, but after they buffed it (unnecessarily) it's totally imba.
Don't you know? they did it for Balance issues........balance my -(language not fit for public consumtpion)-

That ain't balance thats imbalance. when you can dodge most other homing weapons, and can't dodge a simple blaster shot that homes in qiuckly and accurately, ti gets to the point of hoping the enemy player just sucks at aiming.

You can suck at aiming and still get top 10 with Ah-chan and Toy-Loli.
Lets see...
From my experience, outfly Ah-chan and you win. Of course that's impossible without Prop bits/Seraph Wings due to Ah-chan's Full Boost. In lieu of that, stop her from flying above you as that's what most Ah-chan players try to do by stunning/keeping a slayer bit around.

Toy-chan is easier to stop the closer you are to her. If you're far away, she can snipe you with nuke missiles that do damage on the level of a tuned VF's sword attack with insane homing and nuke radius blast. Closer, you can return fire and hopefully stun Toy-loli enough to stop her from 1)nuking the living shit out of you and 2)using her retreat ability to blast her across the goddamn map.

INB4 "HURR DURR I SPAMZ LEFT N RIGHT CLICKZ TO WIN"
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Tue May 03, 2011 6:17 pm

@FireKiller87 wrote:
@Raal wrote:
@knyx wrote:


If Ah-chan just circles over Toy-chan while full boosting when gauge gets low, her homing blaster does the rest. It was good enough before, but after they buffed it (unnecessarily) it's totally imba.
Don't you know? they did it for Balance issues........balance my -(language not fit for public consumtpion)-

That ain't balance thats imbalance. when you can dodge most other homing weapons, and can't dodge a simple blaster shot that homes in qiuckly and accurately, ti gets to the point of hoping the enemy player just sucks at aiming.

You can suck at aiming and still get top 10 with Ah-chan and Toy-Loli.
Lets see...
From my experience, outfly Ah-chan and you win. Of course that's impossible without Prop bits/Seraph Wings due to Ah-chan's Full Boost. In lieu of that, stop her from flying above you as that's what most Ah-chan players try to do by stunning/keeping a slayer bit around.

Toy-chan is easier to stop the closer you are to her. If you're far away, she can snipe you with nuke missiles that do damage on the level of a tuned VF's sword attack with insane homing and nuke radius blast. Closer, you can return fire and hopefully stun Toy-loli enough to stop her from 1)nuking the living shit out of you and 2)using her retreat ability to blast her across the goddamn map.

INB4 "HURR DURR I SPAMZ LEFT N RIGHT CLICKZ TO WIN"

Well luckily when I play TBG I keep a constant look out on my radar and surroundings for melee's so that I can retreat waay before you can even get in range Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Tue May 03, 2011 7:29 pm

@gamerrehab wrote:
@FireKiller87 wrote:
@Raal wrote:

Don't you know? they did it for Balance issues........balance my -(language not fit for public consumtpion)-

That ain't balance thats imbalance. when you can dodge most other homing weapons, and can't dodge a simple blaster shot that homes in qiuckly and accurately, ti gets to the point of hoping the enemy player just sucks at aiming.

You can suck at aiming and still get top 10 with Ah-chan and Toy-Loli.
Lets see...
From my experience, outfly Ah-chan and you win. Of course that's impossible without Prop bits/Seraph Wings due to Ah-chan's Full Boost. In lieu of that, stop her from flying above you as that's what most Ah-chan players try to do by stunning/keeping a slayer bit around.

Toy-chan is easier to stop the closer you are to her. If you're far away, she can snipe you with nuke missiles that do damage on the level of a tuned VF's sword attack with insane homing and nuke radius blast. Closer, you can return fire and hopefully stun Toy-loli enough to stop her from 1)nuking the living shit out of you and 2)using her retreat ability to blast her across the goddamn map.

INB4 "HURR DURR I SPAMZ LEFT N RIGHT CLICKZ TO WIN"

Well luckily when I play TBG I keep a constant look out on my radar and surroundings for melee's so that I can retreat waay before you can even get in range Very Happy

Which, unless you have Broad Radar, can be easily avoided by averting your lock-on recticle until it's too late for you to do anything/Sniper Sight.
I don't know TBG's carts so I couldn't say for certain.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed May 04, 2011 1:39 am

EVE:
I love hunting EVEs and will go after them all the time~ >Very Happy
the main thing you need is a cartridge that allows you a good dodge. As said before, EVE shots are predictable.
You also need speed to be able to get to the EVE as fast as possible and land a hit that stuns.
from there, just stay on that EVE's ass. don't waste movement, when dodging, hop or sway both towards EVE and to the side, then dash towards here and land another hit.
only go for a full combo if, and only if, the EVE will die from that combo. the last thing you want is to be stuck there for a second and get stunned by another enemy long enough for the EVE to escape and get a hit on you, cause then you're pretty much dead.
with vanguard, i go for a single hit, use the stun and push back from the hit to dash, then hop/dodge towards where they float dash, thus using the animation time for their EVE shot to get just close enough and smack them one more time.

But ofcourse, it's not always that simple. there will be people trying to kill you, and protect the EVE.
If there is terrain, this is something you'll want to take note of, and take advantage of. dodge and hop around trees and rocks. it works wonders when fighting an EVE one on one, or a group with an EVE.
if it's a group, take note of the EVE shots like normal and hop on the intervals perpendicular from the EVE shot or behind something if you know it's location, strike anything that's a threat that you can, and try to make your way to an EVE.
not as easy and doesn't always work. still, vanguard aside, i've won unassisted against an EVE using these methods with both nicole and TBG.

-dodge in intervals
-close the distance while dodging if you're a melee
-if you're a melee don't try to combo an EVE unless that combo WILL kill her
-make use of any terrain because EVE shots don't go through walls. lol
-also, the best time to ambush is when your team has put a little pressure on their defense line because EVE will be focusing on take down anyone pushing.

Ouka:
Fly. lol honestly it's as simple as that for any air.
for lands, chose your attacks and positioning carefully, chances are, Ouka is faster than you.
if you're just a melee, take advantage of hopping over Ouka and hitting from the top or behind to stun lock her, then dodge around and repeat.
for supports, elecguns and beam guns, especially on hyper shot, which you should have if you're nearby a PS, is your best friend.
arts... well you can't win now can you? unless you're hopping amaetus or TBG or something, you don't stand a chance. but chances are your allies are near if you're where you should be, so fly as soon as you see an Ouka getting close and move towards allies. you'll probably still take a beating, but you should be saved.

Malice:
huh? i didn't realize she was OP. lol
airs, strafe and fire well. and know the terrain so you hav a safe place to land just in case she gets you.
lands. just eat her up. if she has her WB out, approach from the side or back as much as possible. them sumo hands push back hurts.
supports, can't really do much. just try and stun and move towards people who can kill nicole.
arts, smash her before she gets closer. got stuff with high splash radius? use those. it'll eventually take down that WB

Vanguard Fencer:
Fly. stay above hopping height if possible or a vanguard can catch you. simple as that.
lands. if you're not mighty byne or an ouka, and only have melee, i suggest not trying to win unless the VF is about to die. otherwise, hoppers with a beam or elec gun, run back and spam
supports, elec/beam gun spam
arts... run? float dash? TBG, just spam and backflip yourself towards your allies. lol

hoppers:
airs, avoid them zooks and fire beam guns.
lands, melee when they land or position yourself so that they are hopping directly away or toward you, in which case your shots should hit. otherwise, fire towards the end of their hop.
supports, same as lands.
arts... depends on your weaponry. either move away and spam, position and fire, or hop also.

Aquila girl (ah-chan~)
airs, even other aquila girls, should mainly focus on getting behind her and zooking her to death. the homing on her blaster works great against airs, so watch out and strafe well whenever fighting her.
lands... is she too high to hit?... just try and dodge as best you can. move towards your arts maybe. land mini zook shots if u can. just try and notice her coming before she gets there so u can prepare dodging and move towards allies.
arts, shoot her down before she gets there. she doesn't have anit-homing.
supports.... uhm... same as lands. nicole should act like an art.

Toybox girl
airs, dodge missles, and stay away from other arts. you don't want to be flanked, and you don't want two toy box girls on you. that WILL NOT go over well. if there is an enemy group, always stay to the outside of all enemies and fire hit and run. keep an eye on your boost gauge and fly back to your side at about 1/3-1/4 of your boost left. at 40 fly, you can probably dodge the missles, but you can't dodge 2 from different angles.
lands, ambush from behind and know that they will start backflipping backwards so be ready to move in that direction asap. if they get to far back, retreat and ambush later. you don't want to run too far into enemy territory since most will notice you and airs will destroy you.
supports... uhm doubt you'll run into them, just be aware of missles. you're probably not going to charge after them. however supports have one amazing thing, bugsy am2, and geso whip. ambush and melee. if you can manage that and not die. otherwise, go with another person to ambush them. no sub weapon + 2 v 1, and that TBG is as good as dead
arts... keep an eye on your range. fire and retreat, fire and retreat. or railgun just outside of TBG's range.

Patty Lop
airs, fly higher then those scythe bunnies and gattling stuns can get you if possible. beam gun stun it to death.
lands, keep away from those scythe bunnies and otherwise deal with it like you would any other hopper... minus getting close. positioning and aim will help the most.
arts, smash it before it gets close and stay away. scythe bunnies hurt.
supports, same as lands.

guess that's about it that i know of. lol
hope this random bucket of strategies i use will help someone. :3
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed May 04, 2011 1:44 am

For EVE, TBG, and ESPECIALLY Malice, when playing a high WLK unit... Sway. Quick movement to dodge EVE Cannon, same with TBG missiles, and Malice can't affect you cuz it takes no boost guage! Don't use it against melee types, you'll be better off backpedaling and shooting. What you lose versus continuous fire units in comparison to Short Boost, you make up versus charge-up weapons and Malice. I wish you could Sway and also hop over gaps though...
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed May 04, 2011 2:10 am

@FireKiller87 wrote:
Which, unless you have Broad Radar, can be easily avoided by averting your lock-on recticle until it's too late for you to do anything/Sniper Sight.
I don't know TBG's carts so I couldn't say for certain.
TBG does have a broad radar cart.

against TBGs, you basically have control over their backpedalling ability since it just flies backwards in the opposite direction from your approach, so you can send them over to walls/water/cactus/whatever.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed May 04, 2011 3:05 am

@Kecepirit wrote:
@FireKiller87 wrote:
Which, unless you have Broad Radar, can be easily avoided by averting your lock-on recticle until it's too late for you to do anything/Sniper Sight.
I don't know TBG's carts so I couldn't say for certain.
TBG does have a broad radar cart.

against TBGs, you basically have control over their backpedalling ability since it just flies backwards in the opposite direction from your approach, so you can send them over to walls/water/cactus/whatever.

Just had a game today where my team had 7 TBG's and it was just massive pwnage especially on the map we were on.

We had Jikuns and Pattys deep in their base area harrasing, and we had 7 TBG's plucking all the airs out of the sky!!!

My point is, yes airs, do stay away from us since we do tend to be in groups :3 lol

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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed May 04, 2011 3:37 am

@gamerrehab wrote:

I'd alt-f4 if I was in the opposing team. A rain of nukes from 2 TBGs is bad enough, I can't imagine this one >.>
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed May 04, 2011 6:37 am

@ziix wrote:
@gamerrehab wrote:

I'd alt-f4 if I was in the opposing team. A rain of nukes from 2 TBGs is bad enough, I can't imagine this one >.>

whoa geeze... on that stage that's just... lol

this is where they need to organize a raid with fencers, oukas, mighty bynes, and any other strong melee lands... just kill as many as u can. lol at that point even tho it's suicide it's worth it!!!!

against any big damage dealers like TBG, EVE, ext., i think it's quite reasonable to rush in just to kill one of them if you know you can do it. big threats like that will dent your BP in much more then your one death.
don't just stand back thinking "well... i'll die if i charge so i'll just stay back and take all that" at some point, you have to try and eliminate those huge threats.

despite the insanity, i'd totally enjoy fighting against that. Very Happy my fencer would like to chop up moar powerhouse arts~ I just love slaying TBGs and EVEs with it~ <3
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed May 04, 2011 2:00 pm

I think I was in that match. o.o Kinda surprising that my team kept HEALING even with all that missile spam. The annoying part was 26 dmg TBG missiles against my Blast Guarded SHIELDED 13 TGH Laz, still flinching 100%. How does that work?! My Seraph with 9 TGH tanks more than that in dmg!
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed May 04, 2011 3:13 pm

@Iseal wrote:
I think I was in that match. o.o Kinda surprising that my team kept HEALING even with all that missile spam. The annoying part was 26 dmg TBG missiles against my Blast Guarded SHIELDED 13 TGH Laz, still flinching 100%. How does that work?! My Seraph with 9 TGH tanks more than that in dmg!

Those hits were probably from me since I asked the other TBG's later on and found out that I was the only one tuned to 40 tec

my 40 tec would've been able to do that dmg lol.

Oh and as for melee's rushing us, the only reason we had none rushing us so close to the line was cause we had crims, jikuns, and pattys harrassing the inside of their base too. So it was team work at its best

6-7 TBG's backing up all the rushing airs and melees along with front line winberrls healing our guys Very Happy
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FireKiller87
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed May 04, 2011 4:12 pm

@gamerrehab wrote:
@Iseal wrote:
I think I was in that match. o.o Kinda surprising that my team kept HEALING even with all that missile spam. The annoying part was 26 dmg TBG missiles against my Blast Guarded SHIELDED 13 TGH Laz, still flinching 100%. How does that work?! My Seraph with 9 TGH tanks more than that in dmg!

Those hits were probably from me since I asked the other TBG's later on and found out that I was the only one tuned to 40 tec

my 40 tec would've been able to do that dmg lol.

Oh and as for melee's rushing us, the only reason we had none rushing us so close to the line was cause we had crims, jikuns, and pattys harrassing the inside of their base too. So it was team work at its best

6-7 TBG's backing up all the rushing airs and melees along with front line winberrls healing our guys Very Happy

There's a way to win against that team of 6-7 ToyLolis and the rushing Crims/Pattys/Jikuns.

Solution 1: Send people to sneak around and rape the ToyLolis with melee/fast weapons. Hope that either they don't have Broad Radar or they suck and don't look at the map too much. The others take down the rushing enemies in this order of priority: Patty, Crim, Jikun, Anything else. ALT + F4 CUZ YOU CAN'T WIN.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed May 04, 2011 5:29 pm

I was doing pretty well until they whittled me down... Nothing can survive once the ratio of TBGs to map size rises over a certain point. It's like a danmaku game, 'cept you don't have the advantages of hitbox/whatever escape item the game gives you. I'm really more surprised that 26-ish dmg can flinch 13 tgh rather than the fact the missile was DOING 26 dmg.
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