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 [General] Weakness Analyses

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FireKiller87
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 8:56 pm

@Trill wrote:
Only weakness I've found verses ZSG with a sythe is the somewhat long delay after she swings. If you can manage to stay right out of range, you can easily melee her back once she misses.


As for Nicole:

Use anything that peirces on her. ABR? Thoarla AM3, Beam Rifle, Long Beam Rifle, Peircegun, ect

In theory, a ZSG piloted by a very good player could continually keep ZSG invincible/undamaged forever by using Zero Step and assorted evasive maneuvers in tandem with high-damage scythe swings. Explosive weapons deal damage even if you don't directly hit her. Staying in the air will work the best vs. Scythe ZSG.
As for countermelee...just follow the rules for countermelee vs. a Vanguard and you should be ok. Strike first, strike hard, and get the hell out of range until the target makes a mistake, and then pounce. Don't simply rush in to engage cuz you could easily take a scythe blade to the head.

Also, multitarget weapons, such as Grandum BS, work against Nicole, as you can simultaneously strike at all of her bits and deal damage to Nicole herself. Izuna Kamui LG2 works, to a lesser extent, because you can dualtarget with wisps. Make sure not to spam wisps at Nicole, or you'll end up grounded by her Soul Rod. Be strategic with your wisps.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 9:30 pm

Nicole doesnt need tough wonder bit if you are a dead eye spammer who summons it every single time you get even a little charge.
It usually disappears before you can even get a lot of damage onto it anyways if you play it like that.
I find this play style much more productive than fully charging deadeye and then using him.

I just like charge him half-3/4 wonderbit bar and then activate.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 11:47 pm

Tough WB ups the life of Deadeye, basically meaning he has more HP, and can tank more HP before being destroyed. His individual limbs last longer, over all improving her performance for longer periods of time.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 1:10 am

@Trill wrote:
Tough WB ups the life of Deadeye, basically meaning he has more HP, and can tank more HP before being destroyed. His individual limbs last longer, over all improving her performance for longer periods of time.

Considering how generally fragile Wonder Bits tend to be, taking Tough WB for Nicole makes some sense, especially when you think about how individually fragile each of Deadeye's body parts are, and even more so for Skulleye. Together, I think I remember somebody saying that the HP of all Deadeye/Skulleye parts added up to be about the same for a normal WB, which really isn't that much.
And considering how much Nicoles tend to depend on them for power aside from her Soul Rod...
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 2:22 am

I don't use deadeye to tank.
I use deadeye to fight.
Like I said, I don't have enough charge when I use deadeye for it to blow up in the first place.

And please don't tell me you run away with deadeye activated.

That is such a waste of it's potential.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 2:32 am

I play a 38 wlk sway malice here. Just need 1 more walk because the new breakpoint system.

Anyway.

What.

At the start of the match, I tend to fully charge the gauge.

Then I activate it.

I circle around people and sway around. I have succeeded in rushing an enemy Power Spot and made it out in one piece.

Anyway, uh. I don't know why, but I only activate Deadeye when the gauge isn't full in dire situations. I should try that more often, BNOISE.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 2:38 am

@Glass wrote:

Anyway, uh. I don't know why, but I only activate Deadeye when the gauge isn't full in dire situations. I should try that more often, BNOISE.

Iono. It might be cause you actually aim well.
I can't so I just spam Deadeye every chance I get.

I end up with lower pts in terms of support, but my damage is pretty dang high generally.
I admit it's pretty awesome getting Destroyer with Nicole.


In terms of playstyle I am one of those guys who spams Pillbox units, Sniper units, Hippos, Deadeye and Fire Pillars.
All other wonderbits and items are there just for me to get more charge and stuff from farming trees.

PS - glitch thing - if you spam deadeye a lot, sometimes it glitches up and deadeye doesnt get or lose any charge and stays forever until it finally dies

It's the deadeye glitch that they said they fixed in the first place, but it still happens very often and thats what makes it so fun to spam.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyTue Sep 06, 2011 2:52 pm

Deadeye can be used offensively, but is better used defensively. Especially under a power spot where you, the body, and both arms get hyper shot.

Also, you're probably best off using Deadeye with 40~70% WB; shorter durations are safer for several reasons. Main two reasons that come to mind:

1. The shorter the duration, the less likely you are to be caught in a sticky situation due to Booster Trouble.

2. If everything except one arm gets blown up, you aren't stuck with your crippled boost gauge and a near-useless bit for 45 seconds.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyTue Sep 06, 2011 6:00 pm

any wonderbit based bot takes the risk of becoming a much larger target when they bring those things out. even normal robots using their wonderbits is still a much noticably larger target. take advantage of this against airs. it's absolutely amazing. it's like having a second chance at hitting them. it's also the reason i'm using the standard beam bit rather than a dual bit.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyTue Sep 06, 2011 6:18 pm

@Suguri wrote:
Deadeye can be used offensively, but is better used defensively. Especially under a power spot where you, the body, and both arms get hyper shot.

Also, you're probably best off using Deadeye with 40~70% WB; shorter durations are safer for several reasons. Main two reasons that come to mind:

1. The shorter the duration, the less likely you are to be caught in a sticky situation due to Booster Trouble.

2. If everything except one arm gets blown up, you aren't stuck with your crippled boost gauge and a near-useless bit for 45 seconds.

I thought you could deactivate WBs...at least, most bots I know of can disable their WBs without needing to blow them up or run out the timer. Nicole can't?

Also, using a WB carries some inherent danger as it extends your hitbox a bit in whatever side the WB pops out on. That's no reason to avoid using them or use shitty ones like the default Beam, because even the shitty WBs add plenty of hitbox.
Not to mention that any projectiles striking the WB won't strike you directly unless it's an explosive weapon, in which case you'll just take splash damage.
Take Propeller Bit, for example. You're looking at two big fat gray boxes on both sides of your bot. Yet the propeller bit extends your boost gauge at least 2.5-3x(I haven't done exact testing yet, so I'm not completely sure), letting you fly around a lot longer than some scrub who has to land every 10 seconds. Think about it: do the benefits of whatever WB you're gonna use outweigh the risks of using them(larger target)?
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyTue Sep 06, 2011 6:27 pm

@FireKiller87 wrote:
I thought you could deactivate WBs...at least, most bots I know of can disable their WBs without needing to blow them up or run out the timer. Nicole can't?
Moes with locked bits (Nicole, Patty, Elisa, Mialy, Rouche) can't.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyTue Sep 06, 2011 7:41 pm

@FireKiller87 wrote:
Also, using a WB carries some inherent danger as it extends your hitbox a bit in whatever side the WB pops out on. That's no reason to avoid using them or use shitty ones like the default Beam, because even the shitty WBs add plenty of hitbox.
the standard beam bit might seem shitty to you guys, but i personally prefer the very little amount of effort it takes to be able to use it. at least 70%~ of the time it's going to be up, and that could be used for anything. i don't mind the short time it's up since i'm only going to be using it for a very short amount of time anyways.

@propeller bit
flying around for 20-30~ seconds is a pretty risky thing to do as an air, given the attention you'll garner. coming in and out to shoot a few shots and weaken enemies is a much more safer way of doing things. that's just how i do it, though. different strokes for different folks. not to say it's bad though, that boost time can be quite useful.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyTue Sep 06, 2011 7:46 pm

The real danger with prop bits is the fact that it's one of the very few non-unit bits that can be locked onto, meaning multitarget subweps (hi AA missiles) can get triple lockon on you.

If you can reliably dodge those extra missiles though then there isn't really a downside to them.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 3:52 am

Finally discovered nicole's true weakness.

Cosmo Kaiser AC. Got pwned 3x in a roll in my nicole.

Me so sad.

I think I should get shell guard.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 6:51 am

@BNOISE wrote:
Finally discovered nicole's true weakness.

Cosmo Kaiser AC. Got pwned 3x in a roll in my nicole.

Me so sad.

I think I should get shell guard.
cosmo kaiser ac ruins everyone.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 6:52 am

@BNOISE wrote:

I think I should get shell guard.
Nope.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 9:20 am

@Suguri wrote:
The real danger with prop bits is the fact that it's one of the very few non-unit bits that can be locked onto, meaning multitarget subweps (hi AA missiles) can get triple lockon on you.

If you can reliably dodge those extra missiles though then there isn't really a downside to them.

It's tempting to shoot something thats triple locked Smile

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BNOISE
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 12:06 pm

@Broken wrote:
@BNOISE wrote:

I think I should get shell guard.
Nope.
Shell Guard doesn't protect against gatling guns?
That's so sad. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 12:45 pm

@BNOISE wrote:
@Broken wrote:
@BNOISE wrote:

I think I should get shell guard.
Nope.
Shell Guard doesn't protect against gatling guns?
That's so sad. Sad
It does.
That 10% isn't useful.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyFri Sep 16, 2011 9:12 am

@Glass wrote:

The Crimson Veil negates the TGH damage reduction.

@LordShade wrote:
I love hitting Ivises for 120 damage in a single burst due to Crimson Viel negating TGH damage reduction.
.

fix this, i got some heavy argument with my clanmates
CV does NOT negate TGH reduction
tested, titan zoka 36,29,25,31,... on TGH 11
u should add that CV give some degree of resistance to burn efect such as burner and vulcano grenade,
also immunity to hurricane blow, so people don't think they're save cuz they can can wind up a CV bots Mad
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 10:46 pm

I hope this guide has actually helped some of you. I have no idea what to do in CB anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 10:50 pm

Now we need a guide about the advantages of some bots
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyTue Oct 04, 2011 9:23 pm

Most of the advantages of some bots these days are just blatantly shown to the public. Fight an AG - check out the results. Fight an Air Raider - check out the results.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyThu Oct 13, 2011 7:32 am

I'd like to have constructive criticism so I can improve my guide about now. More detail is appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 12 EmptyThu Oct 13, 2011 5:50 pm

Linear Cannons and Blast Railguns are your friend when fighting AIRs. The best advantage you can give yourself with these types of weapons, by the way, is to lower the altitude differential between you and the target, either by bringing the AIR down (via stun, draw, booster trouble, or gravity fields) or bringing yourself up (higher ground, wind tunnels, or in extremely tricksy cases short boosting onto an ally and getting launched into the air). This ensures that the auto-targeting will handle the y axis (in 3D space), meaning you only have to worry about a single axis for firing purposes. And if you can't aim across this axis, it means you aren't leading shots.

Toybox Girl has access to the Slice Gun or the Blast Bazooka. The former tears through land units, the latter tears through air units. The best way to deal with a TBG is to play tactically, especially if it's a good TBG user. Though, TBG is quite easy to approach, if you know what approaching entails. (Terrain is a great friend of approaches.)

EVEs are always approachable, especially with short boost, but the caveat is that they cannot be dodged within a certain distance. As a result, it is a terrible idea to engage a good EVE without some amazing positioning/assistance. A good EVE player, by the way, knows that shooting you is a more effective way of getting away, especially since you cannot do shit about the stun that comes with a 100+ damage blast to the face.

Ivis is a joke. Just shoot her, or outrange-melee her from the back. She is easy to bait and her melee generally makes her a sitting duck. In otherwords, if you suck at tactical decisions, just find a buddy.

Malice is outmatched in damage against the bots she can chase down. She is generally a non-factor.

There are some good Oukas out there, but the most famous is defeated by Broad Radar and vigiliance. They generally adopt small melee tactics, meaning once you put down some heat on her, she has to retreat or eat a death. Attacking Ouka's back, by the way, is a guaranteed way of not getting hit and laying down pressure.

Vanguards tend to be terrible. Most don't invest in mobility, so they're just like small melees, only larger and easier to spot. Bonus points: most newbies like shooting them because BIG THING WANTS TO SHOVE BIG STICK UP ASS NONONO KILL IT FIRST.

Muchi is like any ART - vulnerable to melee and especially vulnerable to fast bots with longer lasting modes of transportation. Doesn't take pressure like a champ.

Hoppers depend, but in general they are defeatable upon their landing. Most hoppers are terrible, too. In a lot of cases, you can simply continue to cut off their options until their remaining option is "hop into alphafire or vanguard."
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