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 [General] Weakness Analyses

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Raven
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 1:31 am

EVE shot has no blast component until it reaches level 3 charge, I believe.

Then it's like 40% blast. Level two might have 20% or so. EVE 1 I'm pretty sure has none.



I'd say put Seraph on this list, but she's more annoying than broken. Anti-Homing is pretty troll. I just wait until the wings run out and see if they're stupid enough to not fly away when it happens.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 2:23 am

EVE:
-Splash damage, as previously mentioned, isn't stopped by the shield/ can bypass it. Humorously, this makes it possible to kill an EVE with a stardust cannon if your smart about it, but you'll need a lot of fly, and you'll probably eat at least one shot, so some tough. It is doable (from personal experience) but not recommended.

-Anti air missiles, such as destructors, can be used as a hilarious anti EVE weapon as often they will float dash to avoid them, increasing the homing ability. It's not a perfect option, but it's there.

-Confidence: EVE's strongest point is the mind-screw she gives people with high damage output. If you can reach an eve and apply pressure, often it is possible to take them out. If your going to kill an EVE, commit to the attack, retreat only gives the EVE more times to shoot at you if you decide to press and then run. EVE's low tgh means that they stun easy. If you can force an EVE to turn tail and run, seize the golden opportunity.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 3:32 am

According to jp wiki

eve shot
level 1: 80% damage
level 2: 100% damage
level 3: 133% + 48% shell and blast damage

So only level 3 got blast, and the rest are shell.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 3:36 am

@fhoeng wrote:
According to jp wiki

eve shot
level 1: 80% damage
level 2: 100% damage
level 3: 133% + 48% shell and blast damage

So only level 3 got blast, and the rest are shell.
Or, that means that there's always blast damage involved, and the blast damage simply doesn't increase until a max charge.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 6:25 am

Something that works, and not only against EVE : Slice gun.

The curve means that the shield won't work, since it comes from the side, and once you understand the curve, it's possible to hit people on your side.

One thing I tried which worked : boost running Zero Saber Girl with Kamui. The combinaison of reach, speed, and zero step means you can stay in melee range of the EVE.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 6:29 am

@Suguri wrote:
@fhoeng wrote:
According to jp wiki

eve shot
level 1: 80% damage
level 2: 100% damage
level 3: 133% + 48% shell and blast damage

So only level 3 got blast, and the rest are shell.
Or, that means that there's always blast damage involved, and the blast damage simply doesn't increase until a max charge.

Given by the original format, mentioning of blast is inside a bracket next to level 3; within the table of all the arm with internal weapon, eve shot is labeled as shell. I believe the intention is that only level 3 has blast damage.

http://www42.atwiki.jp/cosmicbreak/pages/2423.html

http://www42.atwiki.jp/cosmicbreak/pages/199.html
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 6:35 am

@fhoeng wrote:
@Suguri wrote:
@fhoeng wrote:
According to jp wiki

eve shot
level 1: 80% damage
level 2: 100% damage
level 3: 133% + 48% shell and blast damage

So only level 3 got blast, and the rest are shell.
Or, that means that there's always blast damage involved, and the blast damage simply doesn't increase until a max charge.

Given by the original format, mentioning of blast is inside a bracket next to level 3; within the table of all the arm with internal weapon, eve shot is labeled as shell. I believe the intention is that only level 3 has blast damage.

http://www42.atwiki.jp/cosmicbreak/pages/2423.html

http://www42.atwiki.jp/cosmicbreak/pages/199.html

実弾属性の爆風ダメージ
which translate to shell type blast damage = those kind of splash damage done by breakers? Can anyone confirm?
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 6:41 am

to be word for word and straight translation

real bullet 実弾
element/attribute 属性

blast 爆風
damage ダメージ

Which really just say "shell type blast damage". Whatever that means. Make me wonder if other type of shell weapon are also classified as part blast (breaker).

Japanese also tend to use 爆風 as their word for "AoE" (same meaning, different word). It could really just mean AoE damage, but could be different in cosmic break sense.

Stardust cannon was especially labeled as "beam blast" instead of blast. (same with all lightning gun)

Edit:
found a different jpwiki
this one actually list blast percentage of each weapon
http://wikiwiki.jp/cosmic/?%A5%ED%A5%DC%A5%A6%A5%A7%A5%DD%A5%F3%2F%BC%EA%BB%FD%A4%C1%A5%E1%A5%A4%A5%F3
e.v.e shot however, is mentioned only as shell + penetration.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 10:22 am

@Shikaze wrote:

One thing I tried which worked : boost running Zero Saber Girl with Kamui. The combinaison of reach, speed, and zero step means you can stay in melee range of the EVE.

Add sway and graze like Raymoo.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 11:15 am

With EVE as Marisa ? .... I think I sprained my brain imagining an EVE going "MASTER SPARK !" while firing...... Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 11:16 am

Please refrain from going off topic.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 11:55 am

come on guys
EVE 's damage ll nerf about 30% soon as her chaos ver release

btw
EVE shot is shell type, aoe [penetration]

it ll take reduce from "shell guard (10% reduce damage from bullet type)" it's a little from her damage atm

that 's why beam + blast guard not worked
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 2:00 pm

@fhoeng wrote:
Make me wonder if other type of shell weapon are also classified as part blast (breaker).
My clan's done testing on this. Breakers are 80% shell 20% blast. Most bazookas are 60% shell 40% blast, with a few exceptions (Micro Bazooka is 40% shell 60% blast, Blast Bazooka is 100% blast). Missiles are nearly pure blast damage, but the shell impacting still causes a bit of proration due to tgh, so you won't see the full given damage.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 3:54 pm

VS EVE: Since most weapons don't have the range of the EVE cannon, I think it gets easier the closer you get to her(the closer you are, the more difficult it is to keep lock-on). Of course, you need to dodge her shots while also making a successful approach. I'm not keen on Short Boost vs EVE because the second you stick on the ground is enough for EVE to hit you in the face. Boost Run and Sway are probably better choices.
Use the terrain when trying to approach an EVE. If there are natural barriers like pillars, cliffs, or higher ground that you can hide behind, do so.
Equipping a shield can eat most of the damage from one EVE shot. While it won't be useful for anything more than that, it can be used to press your attack or get within range to melee the hell out of her.

About EVE's psyguns...I've never seen an EVE use her psyguns, probably because the EVE cannon suffices for DPS. Still, they must be accounted for.
I believe Psygun projectiles are homing weapons, yes? If they are, Anti-Homing fields can work well. If you don't have access to an Anti Homing field, dodging can take its place as Psyguns don't track like Missiles do.
If the EVE is spamming psyguns at you and not using her cannon, force her to waste shots. Since each salvo of psy-projectiles comprises 6 psyguns, EVE can run low pretty quickly.

The barrier only covers her front and doesn't protect against splash. Sneaking up behind her and attacking can nullify the barrier, or using bazookas can still allow you to do damage. The problem with that is that EVE can still use her cannon while the barrier is active.

In essence:
-Dodging is a must. If you can't dodge anything, stay far, far away from her.
-Splash damage is useful for bypassing EVE's barrier.
-Use the terrain, if there is stuff for you to use. If it's a place like Green Field, height or ambush is a good form of attack. You can also use trees, drums, etc. to provide a one-shot barrier to EVE's attack.
-Mobility is an advantage.
-Don't count out EVE's psyguns. If you do see her use psyguns, Anti homing or dodging will prevent her psyguns from becoming a problem.
-A shield is nice, but it's gonna be a one-shot deal(as in the shield breaks after eating one EVE shot). If you plan on using a shield, have a plan of action for when the shield eats a shot and breaks.
-Don't forget that EVE may also have another weapon equipped in her left hand, although it's not likely.

VS Vanguard
-Stay out of the reach of his sword. If given the chance, he will cut you into bloody ribbons.
-Since the sword is the only weapon Fencer can equip, you know what to expect.
-Height is the best protection from a Fencer, and the best position to assault a Fencer.
-If you're flying, don't fly low enough for the Fencer to jump and strike you. It will end in your death.
-Stunlocking Fencer is the best way to deal with him. Since his TGH is so low, you can essentially send one person to deal with it, freeing the others to focus on the front lines.
-Fencer is slow to move because of the 2h sword. This is his greatest weakness and your greatest advantage. You can turn his lack of mobility against him by running circles around him and spamming gunfire. However, most Vanguards have Boost Run to alleviate this.
-If it comes down to melee vs melee, the outcome will most likely depend on who strikes first(and thus who gets stunned first). For that reason, striking first is imperative. In order to strike first, you need to know where the Fencer is. Even in the midst of battle, always look at the map and note where the red circles are(enemy LNDbots) and whether any of them are approaching your position. Quickly looking around while attacking is a good idea because it'll give you a 360 degree view of your surroundings, and thus you'll be able to see any Fencer coming, or any other enemy for that matter.

VS Hoppers
-AoE is the best way to deal with these things. Melee works too.
-Try to position yourself so you are in one of these places:
Above the hopper
In front of the hopper
Behind the hopper
These places eliminate one trajectory of movement from the hopper's relative position(normally, you have to deal with both the horizontal and vertical trajectories of movement) to you. By eliminating one of these trajectories, you give yourself a better chance to strike the target.
-Surrounding a Hopper also works fairly well. Since a hopper is one player, he/she can't deal with too many threats coming from all directions. However this will drain your front line of strength, often resulting in enemies zerg rushing you and killing everything they see.

VS Laggers
-I prefer to ignore these. You have better places to be(say, on the front lines) than stuck in the back trying to deal 10 damage to a lagger who is teleporting around and beating the living hell out of everything around you.
-Against persistent laggers, the best attack is containment. Send 1) a bunch of noobs who aren't doing anything useful on the front lines or 2) two or three experienced players who won't die for a while to distract the lagger. This strategy has varying degrees of success depending on how stupid/impulsive the lagger is. I'm willing to bet that at least 50-60% of the time, the lagger is going to attack the decoys you send to him/her. Hopefully this will last for a long while, long enough for your team to break through the enemy front lines.
This "contain and distract" strategy relies on the survivability of your decoys, the type of lagger you're facing, and an immediate push into the enemy front lines(increasing the distance the lagger has to travel to reach you, thus lessening his impact. If he does pursue you, your team will see him/her coming). If your lagger is smart, he/she will likely ignore the decoys and rush your front lines, causing extreme mayhem and possibly the dissolution of your front line. Not many people will do this, but the probability of this happening rises with the length of time the lagger has spent playing the game(more play time = more experience).
For an ideal containment and distraction, you will have:
-At least two skilled players, all of whom are mobile and can tank hits like a monster. Fat and slow ARTs should not be used.
Do not send more than three, maybe four players if the lagger is that annoying. Too many decoys and you risk your front lines dissolving.
-A dumb lagger who will attack the decoys instead of pursuing the pushing army
-If you can't distract the lagger, at least try to contain him so he doesn't reach the rest of your team quickly
-Items in case the lagger comes back. If you can't destroy him, you can blow him back to his team or set him on fire. A barrier field can temporarily screw up his/her lock-on. Hipporoids can be used as makeshift damage eaters/damage dealers. Meteor Fall can possibly deal damage to the lagger. Laying traps can screw up the lagger's shooting accuracy, set him/her on fire, or just annoy the hell out of him/her.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 10, 2011 4:50 pm

One reason you don't see psyguns is because they are used to form the shield. Shield up=no psyguns. I don't think Anti Homing Bits actually "break homing" like Seraph Wings. Seems to me that they just attract lock on to the bit.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptyTue Apr 12, 2011 10:06 am

@Iseal wrote:
One reason you don't see psyguns is because they are used to form the shield. Shield up=no psyguns. I don't think Anti Homing Bits actually "break homing" like Seraph Wings. Seems to me that they just attract lock on to the bit.
Hey, it got my jikun past the 25 artilary trying to shoot me with missiles. i sitll took some hits, but my bit lasted long enoguh for me to get up clsoe to them. i got about 5 of them. >.< cus they were all but dead. then i got stun locked. ANYWAYS overall antihoming is kinda crap.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptyFri Apr 15, 2011 9:35 pm

Another technique to watch out for if an Eve is spamming psyguns at you is that she could be building lock for a level 3 shot--lock on still accumulates with her psygun active, all she has to do is hit all fire to take a shot with the cannon. Fortunately for your typical victim, that still means about a second of animation time before the EVE cannon actually fires, due to the alpha strike animation.

Nothing else really to contribute that hasn't already been stated other than high volume of fire/melee spam being good against laggers, like your typical lagkun. Predict who they'll be lagging at next, then attack that area with a stream of bullets/melee spam. Alpha airs are particularly good at this, the damage stun stops them in their tracks and the bullet stream guarantees a hit if you've predicted where they'll be. Just make sure your idiot allies, who aren't really doing anything to the lagger besides getting in the way and boosting his contribution/damage dealt, aren't in your line of fire and blocking your shots.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptyFri Apr 15, 2011 9:37 pm

I heard that only works if you don't have any weps in hand. If you have, say, a handgun, it'll fail. The EVE thing I mean.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySat Apr 16, 2011 6:39 am

bots that kill me most

wenbberrly (most suppport will lead to my death with there special abilitys I hate U ALL but berrl the most)

high dps builds patty lop raid?assult rifles/alpha strike air raiders with garulu ams
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptySat Apr 16, 2011 6:51 am

@boytitan2 wrote:
bots that kill me most

wenbberrly (most suppport will lead to my death with there special abilitys I hate U ALL but berrl the most)

high dps builds patty lop raid?assult rifles/alpha strike air raiders with garulu ams

Yeah,winbells are evil.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptyTue Apr 19, 2011 6:13 pm

@Nisa wrote:
@boytitan2 wrote:
bots that kill me most

wenbberrly (most suppport will lead to my death with there special abilitys I hate U ALL but berrl the most)

high dps builds patty lop raid?assult rifles/alpha strike air raiders with garulu ams

Yeah,winbells are evil.

Don't run straight. Using jijkun long i can usually get close enough, kick them 3 times the third launching them up wards and dash backwards, shooting them on their descent. you have no idea how many winberrl's i've killed that thought i was just another jikun that was easily pulled and killed.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptyTue Apr 19, 2011 7:24 pm

@Nisa wrote:
@boytitan2 wrote:
bots that kill me most

wenbberrly (most suppport will lead to my death with there special abilitys I hate U ALL but berrl the most)

high dps builds patty lop raid?assult rifles/alpha strike air raiders with garulu ams

Yeah,winbells are evil.

I find that doing an evasive maneuver(Short Boost, Air Loop/Accel Roll, etc.) in the interval between Winberrl draw-stun shots lets me escape 60-75% of Winberrls trying to draw-stun me to a big mass of fat heavy ARTs. Boost Run/Sway work too, but of all of them I think Sway is the only one that isn't Boost Gauge-dependent, so this won't work if you're fresh out of boost.
Best way to escape is to somehow break the lock-on and not get draw-stunned in the first place.

Oh, forgot to mention if you get draw-stunned in the air, pretty much none of the above work except for Air Loop/Accel Roll, one of which is AIRbot only and both of which are RT-only timed carts. So the best protection is not getting draw-stunned in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptyTue Apr 19, 2011 7:29 pm

<<<< just found out that anything with Bugsy AM2 can go against laggers and VF

Despite the fact that VF has longer range, Many of them will get close enough for the Bugsy AM2 to work on before swinging the sword.

@ Firekiller: Short boost + Quick Land DOES WORK against EVE.

Baltheons aren't so bad against EVE tho but the melees below are a pain (VF especially). Get ur friend to use Bugsy while u put up Balth shield and ur rather an invincible duo Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptyTue Apr 19, 2011 7:32 pm

Aegis+Ellen+Bugsy Shock Shield=Ultimate Roadblock?
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 2 EmptyTue Apr 19, 2011 7:35 pm

@RoboFranky wrote:
<<<< just found out that anything with Bugsy AM2 can go against laggers and VF

Despite the fact that VF has longer range, Many of them will get close enough for the Bugsy AM2 to work on before swinging the sword.

@ Firekiller: Short boost + Quick Land DOES WORK against EVE.

Baltheons aren't so bad against EVE tho but the melees below are a pain (VF especially). Get ur friend to use Bugsy while u put up Balth shield and ur rather an invincible duo Very Happy

Uhh...I don't quite remember talkin about EVE, but I'd think hopping around works just as well against EVE as it does against most other bots at long range.
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