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 [General] Weakness Analyses

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Intet
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:11 pm

Solar buster's detonation time is dependent on the movement speed of the target, the faster you are, the shorter the fuse. On fast airs, this means that really the only way to dodge the sub is to cut your engines, or use the wonder bit to dodge the attack, or slow yourself during the 'arming' phase and speed up out of it.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:54 am

umm...
I can easily dodge solar buster with air loop/seraph tackle
my problem is the core main weapon...
damn damage, damn homing, damn interval, damn stun
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:23 am

@frizky wrote:
umm...
I can easily dodge solar buster with air loop/seraph tackle
my problem is the core main weapon...
damn damage, damn homing, damn interval, damn stun

Wings.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:42 am

How about Squidol Whip (if you got) for Ivis Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:01 am

@Aria wrote:
How about Squidol Whip (if you got) for Ivis Neutral

you can't atk but with CV you can't stun, let's run lol!
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:05 am

@SkyPanic wrote:
@Aria wrote:
How about Squidol Whip (if you got) for Ivis Neutral

you can't atk but with CV you can't stun, let's run lol!

But she can't do a melee attack :s
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:34 am

the idea is good, the problem is that ivis has more range
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:36 pm

Back to muchi:

Fly over it and shoot down, mini zook or something air with higher DPS (probably a ballista shooter or dbmg), you should only be getting caught by solar buster if you have seraph wing/buriden speed. Otherwise his core main can't maintain lock to shoot because you're overhead, and it's likely that they would favour beam guard over blast guard, and mini zook is one of the weapons with the best damage for an air. Slayer bit to stunlock and finish it off.

Or play it safe by sniping with power shooter if you have it, not really any other sniping weapons unless you want a massive hitbox to go with it.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:56 pm

@Aria wrote:
How about Squidol Whip (if you got) for Ivis Neutral

The Shock debuff annoys anyone with a melee weapon (or a sub, in any matter), so if you're Ivis and you're up against a bot with a Squidol Whip, you have advantages in these aspects;

1. You have Crimson Veil. No stun.
2. Squidol Whip is rather short range. It can be avoided by slightly keeping your distance.
3. You on the other hand, do have range with your CV buff / rapier.
4. Hopefully you're faster than the bot with the whip.

You can use guerrilla tactics if possible; if the bot with the whip doesn't see you yet, make your way around so you're out of his sight, and attack there. Sway helps to continue your onslaught of hits whilst making a small attempt in evading.

If you've been hit, hopefully you have CV on, because you should hightail it out of there. Run away until the debuff wears off, and make your shots. If the bot's not following you, that's better. Catch your breath, and make your way for another attack.

You can also try to lure the bot into your own team.

Just know that Ivis can "dash" to her enemy when in distance if you right-click with the rapier. Use your rapier's range wisely.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:12 pm

I usually evade Solar Buster pretty easily with my Crim, even without Wings out. There's usually a split second before the charge detonates, so if you're fast enough, you can usually fly out of the blast zone before the charge explodes.
However you can't really change direction, cut your thrusters, or slow down in any way once you commit to evading the blast. All of the above actions(including some not listed) usually involved a very short but significant decrease in speed, which means Solar Buster will probably explode on your ass, which is very upsetting to the poor Airbot you're flying.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:04 pm

People don't seem to be completely aware of Solar Buster's mechanics, so I'll do a quick writeup here on it.

  • When Solar Buster is activated, a "charging" aura appears around the target. While this aura's centered on you, the attack will charge energy based on how quickly you're moving.
  • After a certain amount of time (different for each type of Amateus), the aura stops, and a small orb appears where you were when the aura stopped.
  • The orb detonates. The orb's fuse is based on how much it charged while the aura was active. On Muchi, this part can happen quickly enough for instantaneous detonation on a target consistently moving quickly during the chargeup.


So what you want to do is slow down during the chargeup (kill your boosters momentarily, make a sharp turn, etc etc.) then hightail it out of there when the charge animation ends.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:05 am

Updated. Tell me what I should change/add into the first post.

Also, can anyone give me info about Skull Eyes, the new Malice bit?
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:08 am

@Glass wrote:
Updated. Tell me what I should change/add into the first post.

Also, can anyone give me info about Skull Eyes, the new Malice bit?
I'll give you a writeup on that in an hour or so if I don't fall asleep first, it's nearly 5:10AM here atm.

For the time being: four arms means more melee, and the missiles fired by the body cause shock instead of burn.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:21 am

I think the first post need to have a "general analysis" instead of more "solutions".

Example:

Eve
=================
key weakness:
-1.4x damage from melee
any extremely fast or similar but longer duration speed melee units will work well in dealing damage to her.
-single power shot, and require charge time to do most damage
each shot dodged is a major damage reduction
-vulnerable when she summon her eve cannon or apply buff
typically she summon her cannon as she spawn

key strength:
-extremely powerful single shot (up to 100+) on all unit type
most you can do is to make sure you don't take any more bonus damage by being shot from behind
-barriers to deal with frontal range attacks
must avoid frontal range attacks when it open

Time to avoid:
-when eve user is aware of you while being near her allies
------------------------------

A counter always need to be able to A: mitigate target's strength, B: exploit target weakness, and C: when not counter-able, avoid. However, it is good to let players how to at least partial counter, either being able to mitigate key strength or exploit key weakness. Though I really don't know how detailed it need to be... detailed enough for even newbies? Or detail enough just till veteran can make things out?

Anyway, just an exmaple.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:12 pm

There is a reason why I said it's [General] and it's Weakness Analysis. I don't really want to go in depth with the strengths. It's like a tl;dr thing. I want people to know how to deal with the OP bots without going that deep.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:36 pm

@Glass wrote:
There is a reason why I said it's [General] and it's Weakness Analysis. I don't really want to go in depth with the strengths. It's like a tl;dr thing. I want people to know how to deal with the OP bots without going that deep.

I suppose that's where I find it strange.

I always see analysis as a "deep" thing.

I would have prefer if the title was "OP bot weakness 101" or something that mean "light hearted tips".
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:42 pm

It's more attention grabbing, my title.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:47 pm

@Suguri wrote:
@Glass wrote:
Updated. Tell me what I should change/add into the first post.

Also, can anyone give me info about Skull Eyes, the new Malice bit?
I'll give you a writeup on that in an hour or so if I don't fall asleep first, it's nearly 5:10AM here atm.

For the time being: four arms means more melee, and the missiles fired by the body cause shock instead of burn.
Okay, life delayed me a little.

Skulleyes isn't much different than Deadeye. The bit is broken up into five parts instead of three, and each part is slightly lower in HP (though the total overall HP appears to be about the same). The shots fired by the arms are weaker than deadeye's to compensate the fact that there's more of them, but tgh reduction kind of makes it an overall damage nerf. The main body fires an electrified bolt that causes shock; being that this is one of the few long-range sources of shock, it can gimp things you wouldn't usually be able to hit with shock conveniently (i.e. Toybox Girls spamming their missiles, ah-chans trying to Full Boost, etc), but since there's four other arms firing Booster Trouble shots, odds are it won't stick long enough to make much of an impact. With four arms, Skulleye's actually able to stunlock you with melee, so watch out for that.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:38 pm

Does skull claws give knockback stun or the stay-where-you-are stun?
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:04 pm

@knyx wrote:
Does skull claws give knockback stun or the stay-where-you-are stun?
Knockback.

So you're either going to want to keep running at your target, or pin them against a wall.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:48 pm

@Suguri wrote:
@knyx wrote:
Does skull claws give knockback stun or the stay-where-you-are stun?
Knockback.

So you're either going to want to keep running at your target, or pin them against a wall.

and spam (´・ω・`) while you’re at it.and always get lolpherior’s muchi.

(´・ω・`)
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:28 am

your guide has incorrect info.

all of muchis built-in weapons can be simply outrun by a shaden, by it simply flying forward. Tested and proven multiple times.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:23 pm

Fixed, I think.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:36 am

I think this is doubleposting, but whatever.

Can anyone give me suggestions on what to change?
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:49 pm

The general analysis is very good. Switch TBG with AG and put EVE down below TBG and your list is good :3

Note that vs. Ah-chan, Solar Buster(if it strikes the target) also inflicts Booster Trouble status, which forces your bot to descend at a fixed rate. Instead of flying in a straight line, your trajectory will change to a diagonal pointing to the ground, which is good for forcing Ah-chan closer to you. This makes her easier to strike with bazookas and other guided weapons.

Also note that while Ah-chan is significantly more dangerous than a lot of other Airs, her fatal weakness is her lack of anti-homing ability, unlike Seraph Crim. Artilleries spamming guided weapons at an Ah-chan can easily bring her down. Destructor(Girl)'s AAmissile core weapon is a standout for their superb homing and explosive radius when fighting Ah-chan.

Against a good EVE player, you should be prepared to fight while avoiding the obvious leading opportunities. If an experienced EVE sees you moving in zigzags or in one direction, the pilot WILL shoot at the spot you're heading towards(say if you're circling left, EVE will usually fire to the left at the place you'll be in when the EVE shot crosses your path. Therefore, you should quickly move right once you hear the EVE shot fired. The sound comes before the shot, but the shot travels very fast, so you need to have a quick reaction time) To successfully fight an EVE, you have to predict your enemy's leading shot and react. Time your movements to coincide with the EVE shot.
And NEVER forget that the threat is not just from the EVE cannon. A fast-moving bot fighting an EVE, without the use of her cannon, can still die very quickly to her 6-way Psyguns.

If you're defending against a Toy-Loli, don't forget that her missiles, while very damaging and nukey, are really, really slow. You can use this against her by closing in while avoiding her missiles. Chances are that the Toy-Loli will continue firing missiles at you in desperation while you easily avoid them and close for the kill. Beware of enemy lolis wielding hand weapons.
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