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 [General] Weakness Analyses

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RoboFranky
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyWed May 25, 2011 10:58 pm

@Glass wrote:
Aquila Girl. Discuss now.

MUCHI!

She really is damn imba. Did 60 damage to my Geograsis F type in the green fields. Since she was above me. I decided to retreat and flew straight into a circle of ARTs. I kept flying in complete circles in between the ARTs but they can't save me and her blasters homing are so hax, they can hit me even if Im 38 FLY and fying in little circles with prop bits.

Her Blaster seems to out range zooks and I usually see her flying high up, spamming blasters and wisps
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 12:04 am



Player= RX79BD03 (I think some of you should had met him before)

7 full boost (NOT 3, bleh)
Homing Blaster homes like what psygun did except it's done air to ground REGARDLESS of target. Ammo enough to last the whole match. Anyone show how good it does during air to air?
Rank 2 by just going through pot shotting, though this match seems 1 sided....

But to win by just playing this way does seems easy mode on me. (Note, he got hit by rail guns, thoala am 3 etc....so? full boost away gg)



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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 12:35 am

If you are lucky enough to have a TBG, if you can fish them in to come attack you, backflip away as if you are retreating, and then as they are flying straight at you from a distance, give them the blueberry pies. I mean the nukes. It'll be coming head on to them and they wont have much time to react, thinking that they were the one in the attacking position.

its where the hunter become the hunted. But thats if you can fish em.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 1:01 am

AG player prove them self that they can't aim

it's the shame, nothing to proud of
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 4:34 am

use lily rain le reve if you got one of those.

there is a way to use the blast psygun to kill/chase ah-chan.

as a lily reve, you must keep moving, keep the enemy on target lock, anticipate enemy movement, spam psygun.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 5:07 am

@priskern wrote:
Spoiler:
 

Player= RX79BD03 (I think some of you should had met him before)

7 full boost (NOT 3, bleh)
Homing Blaster homes like what psygun did except it's done air to ground REGARDLESS of target. Ammo enough to last the whole match. Anyone show how good it does during air to air?
Rank 2 by just going through pot shotting, though this match seems 1 sided....

But to win by just playing this way does seems easy mode on me. (Note, he got hit by rail guns, thoala am 3 etc....so? full boost away gg)




Not even that hopper can escape
She just choses the target and start following it around. Man I hate it when she does that Mad
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 5:20 am

@Kanra wrote:
If you are lucky enough to have a TBG, if you can fish them in to come attack you, backflip away as if you are retreating, and then as they are flying straight at you from a distance, give them the blueberry pies. I mean the nukes. It'll be coming head on to them and they wont have much time to react, thinking that they were the one in the attacking position.

its where the hunter become the hunted. But thats if you can fish em.
problem: they fly faster than your backflipping.

@udon-GE wrote:
use lily rain le reve if you got one of those.

there is a way to use the blast psygun to kill/chase ah-chan.

as a lily reve, you must keep moving, keep the enemy on target lock, anticipate enemy movement, spam psygun.
problem: homing blaster outdamages your psygun by a lot, and is much more accurate.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 5:32 am

@Kecepirit wrote:
@udon-GE wrote:
use lily rain le reve if you got one of those.

there is a way to use the blast psygun to kill/chase ah-chan.

as a lily reve, you must keep moving, keep the enemy on target lock, anticipate enemy movement, spam psygun.
problem: homing blaster outdamages your psygun by a lot, and is much more accurate.
Where are you getting those numbers? Aquila girl does 30-40 damage per second with her homing blaster on non-LND units depending on your TGH, whether you have beam guard, and whether all the shots landed. With only 10 TEC, Lily Rain Le Reve's internal upgraded psyguns do 9*2.3 = 20 damage PER PROJECTILE, with four projectiles every 0.92 seconds for a total of 87 DPS before TGH reduction. Even if half of them miss you're still doing much better DPS to Aquila girl than she's doing back to you.


Last edited by Strill on Thu May 26, 2011 5:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 5:48 am

@Strill wrote:
Where are you getting those numbers? Aquila girl does 30-40 damage per second with her homing blaster on non-LND units depending on your TGH, whether you have beam guard, and whether all the shots landed. Lily Rain Le Reve's internal upgraded psyguns do 9*2.3 = 20 damage PER PROJECTILE, with four projectiles every 0.92 seconds for a total of 87 DPS before TGH reduction. Even if half of them miss you're still doing much better DPS to Aquila girl than she's doing back to you.
just try it.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 6:01 am

Not real sold on Muchi's Solar Buster as a hard counter against Ah-chan. I dodged 5 successive Solar Busters from a clannie with my Wings-out Seraph the other day, while Wisp-spamming him to death. He even brought it up afterwards.

Once the yellow dots start flashing, you can roughly guesstimate when the Solar Buster will blow; I simply stopped circling and flew straight ahead when I know it's about to hit, and that usually puts just enough distance between my Seraph and the Solar Buster explosion to whiff. If Ah-chan's Full Boost works like I think it does (I don't have one BTW), Full Boosting just before Solar Buster blows will achieve the same effect, possibly even more successfully.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 6:15 am

@Kecepirit wrote:
@Strill wrote:
Where are you getting those numbers? Aquila girl does 30-40 damage per second with her homing blaster on non-LND units depending on your TGH, whether you have beam guard, and whether all the shots landed. Lily Rain Le Reve's internal upgraded psyguns do 9*2.3 = 20 damage PER PROJECTILE, with four projectiles every 0.92 seconds for a total of 87 DPS before TGH reduction. Even if half of them miss you're still doing much better DPS to Aquila girl than she's doing back to you.
just try it.
Quit changing the subject. You said that Homing blaster does more damage AND is more accurate, and that's absolutely false.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 6:30 am

@Strill wrote:
Quit changing the subject. You said that Homing blaster does more damage AND is more accurate, and that's absolutely false.
how the hell did i change the subject.
i'm not, you should try yourself and see if the damage you stated adds up.

by that rationale, septuple launcher has more dps, and you'd probably think it one-hit-kills airs as well...
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 5:34 pm

@Ascaloth wrote:
Not real sold on Muchi's Solar Buster as a hard counter against Ah-chan. I dodged 5 successive Solar Busters from a clannie with my Wings-out Seraph the other day, while Wisp-spamming him to death. He even brought it up afterwards.

Once the yellow dots start flashing, you can roughly guesstimate when the Solar Buster will blow; I simply stopped circling and flew straight ahead when I know it's about to hit, and that usually puts just enough distance between my Seraph and the Solar Buster explosion to whiff. If Ah-chan's Full Boost works like I think it does (I don't have one BTW), Full Boosting just before Solar Buster blows will achieve the same effect, possibly even more successfully.

I have no problem solar bustering people, even if you miss, you're forcing them to do things they don't want to do, and with a varied weapon load out that means you can punish them
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 5:39 pm

@Kecepirit wrote:
@Strill wrote:
Quit changing the subject. You said that Homing blaster does more damage AND is more accurate, and that's absolutely false.
how the hell did i change the subject.
i'm not, you should try yourself and see if the damage you stated adds up.

by that rationale, septuple launcher has more dps, and you'd probably think it one-hit-kills airs as well...

Homing blaster homes as a group, psyguns fire 2 in front and 2 in back, the ones in the back have just about no chance to hit the same target the front ones, if the front ones even hit. Also, if you're leaning back to shoot something circling over you, the back two shots shoot out and explode on the floor.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 8:14 pm

@knyx wrote:
@Kecepirit wrote:
@Strill wrote:
Quit changing the subject. You said that Homing blaster does more damage AND is more accurate, and that's absolutely false.
how the hell did i change the subject.
i'm not, you should try yourself and see if the damage you stated adds up.

by that rationale, septuple launcher has more dps, and you'd probably think it one-hit-kills airs as well...

Homing blaster homes as a group, psyguns fire 2 in front and 2 in back, the ones in the back have just about no chance to hit the same target the front ones, if the front ones even hit. Also, if you're leaning back to shoot something circling over you, the back two shots shoot out and explode on the floor.

Im sure the homing blaster is musch faster
30-40 to non LND?
60 damage to my AIR Mad
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyThu May 26, 2011 9:47 pm

@RoboFranky wrote:
@knyx wrote:
@Kecepirit wrote:

how the hell did i change the subject.
i'm not, you should try yourself and see if the damage you stated adds up.

by that rationale, septuple launcher has more dps, and you'd probably think it one-hit-kills airs as well...

Homing blaster homes as a group, psyguns fire 2 in front and 2 in back, the ones in the back have just about no chance to hit the same target the front ones, if the front ones even hit. Also, if you're leaning back to shoot something circling over you, the back two shots shoot out and explode on the floor.

Im sure the homing blaster is musch faster
30-40 to non LND?
60 damage to my AIR Mad
This.
Thing is, the one thing we have working in our favor is that 80-90% of Ah-chan users ONLY do "HURR DURR I FLYZ OVER YOUR HEAD, HOMING BLASTER + WISPS + FULL BOOST, GG 4 U HURR HURR". So the attack pattern is very, very easy to read.

Normal combat tactics vs spammy-ass Air will probably work vs. the above Ah-chan user for a limited amount of time.
Anti-Homing bits are a viable tactic but fuck over your WB slot if even one Ah-chan is on the field(which in most games, there isn't just one).

Psyguns are NOT viable as a deterrent to Ah-chan. For one, their homing really sucks past a certain range. Second, Psyguns in general are weak as shit(Lily has 4x Psyshots, 5 force each. Le Reve has 4x Psyshots, 7 force each. Psycho Formula AM has 2x Psyshot per AM, i dunno the force but I think it's between 5-10). At maximum, you can do 28 damage(4x Psyshots strike from a Le Reve). Minimum 20 damage(4x Psyshots from a Lily Rain or a Psycho Formula AM) and that's assuming ALL psyshots strike the target, which is not likely at all unless you're using Hypershot and spamming Psyshots left and right.
Septuple Launcher could probably cause Ah-chan some trouble, actually. Besides her lack of Anti-Homing, she only has a maximum of 3 Full Boosts. Seven missiles being launched every second or few will probably cause Ah-chan to run the fuck away, especially if multiple ARTs have them/a few ARTs have multiple Septuple Launchers. The problem is striking her...

Again, I'd think a Seraph is your best choice against the scrub population of Ah-chans(2x Internal'd is your best choice, though 1x or 0x Internal'd could work with slightly less effectiveness). With Anti-Homing Trollwings activated, Ah-chan's homing blaster should have more difficulty striking Seraph, giving you 25/29x2/33x3 seconds of free Minizooka spamming. This won't work if you know the Ah-chan(s) you're against are part of the 10% that actually possess a decent level of skill using Ah-chan. Anything that has a decent mobility cart(Sway but it needs good timing to utilize the invinciframes and the diagonal part of the direction effectively, Float Dash, Short Boost, Boost Run will NOT work well) can dodge the homing blaster much more easily.

Flying above Ah-chan will also help, provided you're an Air type with some method of flight time extension(Seraph Wings/Brickgale STOVL/Shaden BS). In lieu of that, try to get on Ah-chan's height level, and when she passes by toss a few bazooka shells in her face. I've had a decent level of success with my Lily Rain against spammy-ass Airs with this tactic(more desperation than anything else)-fly directly at the Airbot, and when you get close enough that you're sure that the Air can't dodge, shoot your Bazooka(Handy works best due to large projectile size, Micro is next, Mini is least effective due to smaller projectile but still does very well) until the Air passes by. If you did this right, the Air should have taken at least 25+ points of damage, depending on your bazooka, and you should have taken little to no damage.
For fat ART players looking for UC solutions, look no further than Victory, Destructor, or CN. These three bots usually have hax Core weapons built for Anti-Air(Blastzookas, AAmissiles, fast + long ranged zooka). Destructor(Girl) can help keep up to four Ah-chans at bay from long range thanks to his 4x Sub-Lock AAmissiles(with crazy-AAfucker homing quality too!). Lily Rain built for Sway/Short Boost(?)(odd but viable) or Float Dash can draw Ah-chan's attention, and dodge her homing blaster with Float Dash or Sway/Short Boost.
If your Ah-chan's flying low while spamming out of her ass, a recently-arrived Vanguard could make her suffer for her idiocy. Pray she doesn't Full Boost until it's too late to dodge VF's sword.
Railguns are, imo, a poor option due to Ah-chan's Full Boost. Unless, of course, you're a crazy fuckin sniper who can shoot a tiny-ass worm on a tree 1000 yards from your current position through the head.
Keeping Ah-chan at bay with long range support seems to be the best strategy on paper, but really, she'll probably fly to your back lines and wipe the floor of Dull Road stage with your ARTs so clean that you could fuckin eat off the ground. So don't engage Ah-chan with too many long-range weapons unless you're also packing:
1)Bazookas with speed, force, ammo, AND range. If you're missing more than one of the four, drop the bazooka and find a better one or be ready to die painfully.
2)Shotguns that you can wield with a high degree of skill and accuracy. If you can't, don't bother.
3)A surprise waiting for Miss Ah-spam, like a Pulsardio hanging behind a rock or a half-line of fat ARTs(this is not recommended, as Ah-chan will eat both lines).
4)Missiles with "FUCKIN GO TO HELL" homing. DGirl's "YOU CAN'T HAVE BIGGER BUST THAN ME" missiles come to mind immediately, although they don't work as well at close range.
A decent Pulsardio on your team works wonders against Ah-chan. As long as you have the EMP missiles(Bad Homing status Ah-chan a LOT) on your side(I dunno if Shell Supply works on Pulsardio's EMP missiles, but it can't hurt to try), any scrubby Ah-chan's effectiveness is cut to below 30%. You can still get randomly hit, so continue to dodge. Make sure that Pulsardio has a bazooka and either a Burst Fire bit or a small-to-mid sized escort in case he/she gets into trouble.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyFri May 27, 2011 5:01 am

@RoboFranky wrote:
@knyx wrote:
@Kecepirit wrote:

how the hell did i change the subject.
i'm not, you should try yourself and see if the damage you stated adds up.

by that rationale, septuple launcher has more dps, and you'd probably think it one-hit-kills airs as well...

Homing blaster homes as a group, psyguns fire 2 in front and 2 in back, the ones in the back have just about no chance to hit the same target the front ones, if the front ones even hit. Also, if you're leaning back to shoot something circling over you, the back two shots shoot out and explode on the floor.

Im sure the homing blaster is musch faster
30-40 to non LND?
60 damage to my AIR Mad
No, the psyguns are faster. Aquila girl's blaster has an int of 1.000 and 2x internal upgraded psyguns have an int of 0.920. You obviously either have low TGH or the Aquila girl got a lucky crit because I've never taken any more than 40 damage from an Aquila girl shot.

Just watch this video. Best shot I can see was 55 damage crit on a seraph. Most shots did around 30 damage just like I predicted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-YbOrab18

Quote :
This.
Thing is, the one thing we have working in our favor is that 80-90% of Ah-chan users ONLY do "HURR DURR I FLYZ OVER YOUR HEAD, HOMING BLASTER + WISPS + FULL BOOST, GG 4 U HURR HURR". So the attack pattern is very, very easy to read.

Normal combat tactics vs spammy-ass Air will probably work vs. the above Ah-chan user for a limited amount of time.
Anti-Homing bits are a viable tactic but fuck over your WB slot if even one Ah-chan is on the field(which in most games, there isn't just one).

Psyguns are NOT viable as a deterrent to Ah-chan. For one, their homing really sucks past a certain range. Second, Psyguns in general are weak as shit(Lily has 4x Psyshots, 5 force each. Le Reve has 4x Psyshots, 7 force each. Psycho Formula AM has 2x Psyshot per AM, i dunno the force but I think it's between 5-10). At maximum, you can do 28 damage(4x Psyshots strike from a Le Reve). Minimum 20 damage(4x Psyshots from a Lily Rain or a Psycho Formula AM) and that's assuming ALL psyshots strike the target, which is not likely at all unless you're using Hypershot and spamming Psyshots left and right.
Septuple Launcher could probably cause Ah-chan some trouble, actually. Besides her lack of Anti-Homing, she only has a maximum of 3 Full Boosts. Seven missiles being launched every second or few will probably cause Ah-chan to run the fuck away, especially if multiple ARTs have them/a few ARTs have multiple Septuple Launchers. The problem is striking her...
BLAST DAMAGE. I already gave calculations which you completely ignored. Lily Rain LeReve will do about 20 damage per projectile to Aquila girl with 10 TEC and 2x Internal Weapon upgrades.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyFri May 27, 2011 7:07 am

Well, like I replied previously, the major problem isn't projectile or anything. Even when both having the same imbal homing. The rate and chance of hitting someone air to ground and ground to air is completely different.
I can give you a unlimited hyper shot buff psygun rain. But, most of time you can only manage to hit once or twice and that's it.
She just full boost after the stun(IF she gets stun anyway) and she be outta the way, while if she targets you, you be in for a major trouble.
If that aquila girl player wanted, 90% of time, they can single you out while you retreating and continue blasting the blaster on you. You be taking more damage in a direct headon whether you want it or not, and if you don't she just get a few more free hits on you.
Even if that doesn't kills you, it most of the time leaves you cripped and giving her free damage scores.
You have to be around some height ledge or cave most of the time if you you were planning to evade her, which isn't viable in every single map out there. While she just need maps with slight height advantage to freeing hit anything else.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyFri May 27, 2011 7:32 am

@priskern wrote:
Well, like I replied previously, the major problem isn't projectile or anything. Even when both having the same imbal homing. The rate and chance of hitting someone air to ground and ground to air is completely different.
I can give you a unlimited hyper shot buff psygun rain. But, most of time you can only manage to hit once or twice and that's it.
She just full boost after the stun(IF she gets stun anyway) and she be outta the way, while if she targets you, you be in for a major trouble.
If that aquila girl player wanted, 90% of time, they can single you out while you retreating and continue blasting the blaster on you. You be taking more damage in a direct headon whether you want it or not, and if you don't she just get a few more free hits on you.
Even if that doesn't kills you, it most of the time leaves you cripped and giving her free damage scores.
You have to be around some height ledge or cave most of the time if you you were planning to evade her, which isn't viable in every single map out there. While she just need maps with slight height advantage to freeing hit anything else.
You're underestimating the accuracy of the psyguns. They're more than enough to make me retreat on my seraph as long as the person playing the lily rain keeps me targeted.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyFri May 27, 2011 7:55 am

@Strill wrote:
@priskern wrote:
Well, like I replied previously, the major problem isn't projectile or anything. Even when both having the same imbal homing. The rate and chance of hitting someone air to ground and ground to air is completely different.
I can give you a unlimited hyper shot buff psygun rain. But, most of time you can only manage to hit once or twice and that's it.
She just full boost after the stun(IF she gets stun anyway) and she be outta the way, while if she targets you, you be in for a major trouble.
If that aquila girl player wanted, 90% of time, they can single you out while you retreating and continue blasting the blaster on you. You be taking more damage in a direct headon whether you want it or not, and if you don't she just get a few more free hits on you.
Even if that doesn't kills you, it most of the time leaves you cripped and giving her free damage scores.
You have to be around some height ledge or cave most of the time if you you were planning to evade her, which isn't viable in every single map out there. While she just need maps with slight height advantage to freeing hit anything else.
You're underestimating the accuracy of the psyguns. They're more than enough to make me retreat on my seraph as long as the person playing the lily rain keeps me targeted.

I tried, they are just blast damage type psyguns nothing else, it doesn't function any much better, it doesn't explode on max range like nova missile. If amateus' bd nova missile with 310 speed(2 int cart) can't catch them I don't see how the 140 speed psygun does.
If you're saying I am underestimating the accuracy of psyguns, I said I had overestimated it's capability and stupid enough to use it as anti air defense instead of regular/blast zooks.
And, seraph is not aquila girl, it takes quite a bit of skill on aiming with wings out in order to single out opponent under a mob/ps (note, I mean SINGLE out from bunch of people, NOT finding lone targets) and killing them while not getting hit. Which why most of them use her as wisp spammer if they can't aim using her. Aquila girl just need to get a lock and let the homing blaster do all the work.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyFri May 27, 2011 9:14 am

I know this is probably not anything useful but..

It feels like every ART with a decent sub out there, has some kind of lapse with owning AIRs. Amateus' internal can be dodged, DG's AA missiles can be antihomed, TBG's internals hurt, but they can be dodged relatively easily as well (although easy to use to hurt distracted opponents; not so much when they're focused on you).

Even with the onslaught of TBGs...it feels like the ART>AIRs still isn't really in effect..
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyFri May 27, 2011 9:30 am

@priskern wrote:
@Strill wrote:
@priskern wrote:
Well, like I replied previously, the major problem isn't projectile or anything. Even when both having the same imbal homing. The rate and chance of hitting someone air to ground and ground to air is completely different.
I can give you a unlimited hyper shot buff psygun rain. But, most of time you can only manage to hit once or twice and that's it.
She just full boost after the stun(IF she gets stun anyway) and she be outta the way, while if she targets you, you be in for a major trouble.
If that aquila girl player wanted, 90% of time, they can single you out while you retreating and continue blasting the blaster on you. You be taking more damage in a direct headon whether you want it or not, and if you don't she just get a few more free hits on you.
Even if that doesn't kills you, it most of the time leaves you cripped and giving her free damage scores.
You have to be around some height ledge or cave most of the time if you you were planning to evade her, which isn't viable in every single map out there. While she just need maps with slight height advantage to freeing hit anything else.
You're underestimating the accuracy of the psyguns. They're more than enough to make me retreat on my seraph as long as the person playing the lily rain keeps me targeted.

I tried, they are just blast damage type psyguns nothing else, it doesn't function any much better, it doesn't explode on max range like nova missile. If amateus' bd nova missile with 310 speed(2 int cart) can't catch them I don't see how the 140 speed psygun does.
Like missiles, Lily's psyguns home differently for land and air targets. For air targets they continuously accelerate and home, for land targets they barely accelerate at all and go in a mostly fixed direction. If you have the chibi long range buff they have all the more opportunity to accelerate and can easily reach railgun speeds.

I haven't confirmed it, but I suspect that her psyguns' maximum range may also ignore height or perhaps get some other bonus for very high targets, or perhaps be affected differently by some buffs. I've played as and against Lilies and I've seen them accelerate extremely quickly against high altitude air units.
Quote :
And, seraph is not aquila girl, it takes quite a bit of skill on aiming with wings out in order to single out opponent under a mob/ps (note, I mean SINGLE out from bunch of people, NOT finding lone targets) and killing them while not getting hit. Which why most of them use her as wisp spammer if they can't aim using her. Aquila girl just need to get a lock and let the homing blaster do all the work.
If the person in question is sitting around under a PS, why is it any more difficult to hit them with a beam gun than with a homing blaster?
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyFri May 27, 2011 3:57 pm

@Strill wrote:
Like missiles, Lily's psyguns home differently for land and air targets. For air targets they continuously accelerate and home, for land targets they barely accelerate at all and go in a mostly fixed direction. If you have the chibi long range buff they have all the more opportunity to accelerate and can easily reach railgun speeds.

I haven't confirmed it, but I suspect that her psyguns' maximum range may also ignore height or perhaps get some other bonus for very high targets, or perhaps be affected differently by some buffs. I've played as and against Lilies and I've seen them accelerate extremely quickly against high altitude air units.

Quote :
And, seraph is not aquila girl, it takes quite a bit of skill on aiming with wings out in order to single out opponent under a mob/ps (note, I mean SINGLE out from bunch of people, NOT finding lone targets) and killing them while not getting hit. Which why most of them use her as wisp spammer if they can't aim using her. Aquila girl just need to get a lock and let the homing blaster do all the work.

If the person in question is sitting around under a PS, why is it any more difficult to hit them with a beam gun than with a homing blaster?


I have NEVER noticed Psyguns accelerating when firing at airborne targets at any altitude, and I regularly use Lily Rain too. Don't have a Majalis or Le Reve, but I'll assume the psyguns behave the same way. In fact, I've noticed the same deterioration as with other weapons, as in that the psyshots, like other weapons, have an inverse relationship with distance and height(more distance or height = less chance to strike the target if the projectile speed and range are controlled at a certain value). Some clarification on this matter would be appreciated, and some proof of the claim(vid or it's not true).
I could not imagine that any type of weapon would ignore maximum range, except for a weapon like Lily's Psyslicer. A projectile weapon usually dissipates or explodes upon reaching maximum range, and I'd imagine that Lily's Psygun is no different.

About Psygun homing...I've noticed that Psygun homing is extremely crappy before and after a certain fixed range. You can't count on hitting anything at close range unless you're using Psycho Formula AM, and the Psyshot doesn't have anything near a decent induction rate(how fast the homing projectile can adjust for changes in the target's range, distance, or height by curving or whatever). Long range is equally crappy. Even if what you say is true and the psyshots accelerate against high-altitude, airborne targets, the lack of splash/AoE and the tiny projectile size basically say, "You need to strike the target directly to do any damage." At long range, distance, or height, the chance of this happening are small for ONE projectile, to say nothing of 2, 4, or 6.

About the PS matter...I would agree that it's more difficult to hit a target with a handheld beam weapon than Ah-chan's homing blaster just because of Ah-chan's core weapon's nature as a weapon with pissed-off-sniper homing capability. With Ah-chan, a complete noob with no skill can fly around a PS at will, sending out blaster beams of death that will actually lock and strike the target(for good damage too...an Air or Art should not be taking 30-40 damage per blaster shot, and 1000 interval equates to ONE second between attacks) with little to no effort by the user. With a handheld beam weapon, the user has to take into account leading for any movement(including his or her own), potential lag time, the projectile's speed, the estimated distance between the target and the weapon, etc etc etc. There isn't even a guarantee that the handheld projectile will strike the target, a guarantee that is mostly present, maybe 80-90% of the time, with Ah-chan's blaster(by that I mean at least one blaster beam will strike the target). The difference in difficulty between striking an enemy with a weapon possessing imba homing causing sniper-level accuracy, and striking with a handheld weapon, is in the skill needed for such an endeavor.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyFri May 27, 2011 4:10 pm

The defining characteristic of psyguns is that they speed up when fired at faster-moving targets. They're practically instant hit on something like Shaden.
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PostSubject: Re: [General] Weakness Analyses   [General] Weakness Analyses - Page 6 EmptyFri May 27, 2011 4:19 pm

@Suguri wrote:
The defining characteristic of psyguns is that they speed up when fired at faster-moving targets. They're practically instant hit on something like Shaden.

I've NEVER noticed this, maybe it's just me. Thanks.
I still don't think Psyguns are effective vs. Ah-chan. Since it's been established that they speed up against faster targets now, you still gotta deal with the 920 INT(so equates to slightly less than one psygun blast every nine-tenths of a second) and the generally crappy-ass force. Even if Le Reve's psyshots do have blast damage, I still have yet to see a single Le Reve in an Arena match(probably due to my absence from arena, but w/e) and you still have to think about outdamaging Ah-chan, and factor in the stun effects.
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