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 Ciel Dragbucket D tuning

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Paruru
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PostSubject: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Tue May 02, 2017 1:06 pm

Considering this is the first melee bot whose melee I actually kind of like, decided to try my hand at tuning her. I can do a fairly okay job at getting her to about 800 hp without capa tunes but I'm not entire sure on what weapon tunes to go with.

Namely, should I go with the good old double slow+HGlad combo to annoy people...
sacrifice 70 hp and last stand and go with double ex melt + HGlad from sword drive...
or go with doube/triple HGlad so I can emulate warping indos and fly all over the goddamn place...

Also, given she has fast recovery, would tuning double clearance on her LG be worth it? Or tuning CV for that matter since a ton of things these days ignore CV anyway... She's pretty squishy despite her 60% guard from her power up fuel can thing.

Any input greatly appreciated!
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Tue May 02, 2017 2:17 pm

if anybody could post a video of her shop shovel weapon combos and attacks that would help. I wonder if anybody bought her from the shop.
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Maelstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Tue May 02, 2017 2:53 pm

Sorry, but like Ese, I also need to know how her shovel combo
works in order to help you...
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Tue May 02, 2017 2:54 pm

Someone has to, that gold conversion item only works with her to make her a gold (shovel) version
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Tue May 02, 2017 3:01 pm

I would probably already have bought her if I were playing...
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Tue May 02, 2017 4:15 pm

hey do you guys get a frame rate drop during the finisher of her combo?
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Tue May 02, 2017 5:13 pm

I doubt anyone here have her (I know i don't since i wasted my RT to get her conversion item)
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Wed May 03, 2017 8:25 am

Or... or... how about we use what he has on hand and go with the drill version? That shovel promo is a newbie trap, I swear.

My vote is go single glad to make her combo a bit more fluid without blowing through ammo. Double glad would probably guarantee every swing connects across flat ground.

Here is mine on single High Glad. (Forgot to trim it at the end and smart resampling is on but it's not worth another 45 minutes of my life to go back and fix for a simple demo)



I am planning like 40 walk, I dunno what fly (probably something that puts her in the red) and skipping boost run grabbing bump absorb instead. The boostrun from the engine does enough for me. I don't crowd dive often, I am mostly pushing people off healers or outright killing them. Going for high glad and double melt, myself to shorten the time to kill but I can see the value of going powerless beta to make her a scary brawler. I am not sure why it's so rare for people to tune powerless beta. I can imagine it saving your ass in some bad brawling situations.

I am not super sure how often clearance would proc because of the super armor she seems to have. I'd rather just get that one clearance cart from sword drive anyway.

Lastly - squishy how? Are you trying to dive with her? Maybe 60 guard and guard carts don't stack. I've only toyed around with her these past couple days but never took her to live arena, yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Wed May 03, 2017 3:22 pm

I do not have shovel version and really did not plan to get her. I actually was thinking of tuning the DRILL, not the shovel. Some people have told me the drill melee's better than the shovel's anyway, and from what I've seen (from limited arena watching) they're pretty much the same except the shovel's MWB attack is this weird slam that knocks things up while the drill charges forward and pushes them back. Also shovel seems to be slower? But that might just be me or the person I was observing lagging.

In hindsight I should've specified I was talking about the drill gara version and not the shop version.

@NEXT Thanks for your opinion! Personally I was shooting for 38/1 boost run, I didn't think of her as much of a crowddiver, but maybe I should try to shoot for 38/10 or 40/8 for faster entry and exit since she doesn't really have any gimmicks for getting away from enemies if things get too heated... Though that'll probably require me sacrificing some HP or something else for it. I thought about powerless instead of melt but I figure if melt procs she could burn through a decent chunk of HP in a combo. My only concern is giving up the 70 HP and last stand from armor drive... (And the fact I've never used sword drive on anything ever so I don't know what carts would be best, but I'll worry about that later).

When I mention she's squishy, it's probably more of a subconscious thing. She doesn't really have on-demand CV, a frontal block or parry. Overall, she just doesn't seem like she has many survivability tools, but she's also the first melee I've used since Eris and being honest I don't know much about other melee since I just kinda shoot at them and don't really bother noticing what they do.

And I do guess using a level 2 untuned Ciel with nothing but blast guard and a capa cart in a live arena will result in her being murdered in two seconds no matter how sturdy she might be.

I'll probably end up flipping a coin or something to see if I go with ex melt or slow + armor drive. The High Glad's definitely staying in that third slot, though. That said, I wonder if she's just not really a good bot or something since it seems almost no one really uses her.
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Wed May 03, 2017 3:56 pm

I feel like every melee who doesn't have cv guard/parry being squish af...

If you want glads on the drill combo, 1 h.glad must be enough, then go for
2x vanilla grappler or melt. I also don't think 38/10 boost run is worth unless
if you have good enough base stats to reach it without sacrifices (like Killica).

If you ask me, I don't think sword drive is worth at all when armor drive
is way better since melees requires a lot of survivability to handle all the
ridiculous dps that everyone has nowadays...
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Wed May 03, 2017 10:10 pm

Where do people get this endless supply of Armor Drives? I only went sword drive because it's the only one I have 14 of that isn't Boost Drive. Hell I even Boost Driven my Sunny JUST BECAUSE I ran outta Armor Drives. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Wed May 03, 2017 10:21 pm

I just don't build things often enough to run out of drives...
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Wed May 03, 2017 10:51 pm

I only have like... 5 things that are even SOMEWHAT meta relevant anymore and I end up getting a lot of drives in between getting something new to tune, so I have like 20 of each type of drive lying around. Don't really charge so all my stuff comes from free rolls and 90% of the time I get useless junk from those.


And thanks for your input! At the end of the day, it seems it comes to whether I want her to be more offensive or defensive. Considering her lack of base survivability asides from her 60% damage reduction (which really seems to be more of a bonus just when going in/trying to get out), I think armor drive is just the better choice... It's kinda annoying giving up the pretty high damage potential of ex melt, though, but I see myself doing a little bit better with the extra HP and last stand from armor drive than with sword drive, since as MaeIstrom mentioned everything has a ton of DPS these days. HP is meta, melees that aren't bapho are dead anyway, etc etc, so I guess going with the option that won't result in me dead 5 seconds after two or more enemies pop up is the way to go. That said I've never used sword drive. Ever. So if anyone's got more opinions on this, please do share.

This only leaves me wondering if the 2 extra force (32 > 35) from two grappler tunes are really worth it or if I should just go with slow or something to annoy people if I do stick with Armor Drive. Admittedly never really having played melee seriously before I don't even know if Ciel's base damage is high or not...
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Thu May 04, 2017 7:06 am

Being honest, I prefer to just get +30hp over the 2 force, it's also an option
that I forgot to mention (1x h.glad and that's all). I never ever used slow
tunes, so I can't say for sure how good or bad they are, but the drill combo
should be good procing them and if it does, it surely will be annoying...
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Wed May 17, 2017 10:15 pm

I run the shovel version. Her combo swings a little slower and there are fewer hits, but it stuns hard enough to keep people in the combo. It also pops up targets with MWB instead of pushing, but her normal combo finisher pushes anyway. Dirt toss scales with strength, but has pretty bad aim. Power drive gives free boost run, thus not needing to pick up the cart.

My build:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Thu May 18, 2017 6:28 am

@Rexir2 wrote:
I run the shovel version. Her combo swings a little slower and there are fewer hits, but it stuns hard enough to keep people in the combo. It also pops up targets with MWB instead of pushing, but her normal combo finisher pushes anyway. Dirt toss scales with strength, but has pretty bad aim. Power drive gives free boost run, thus not needing to pick up the cart.
Sorry about calc's stat. Ciel BD (Shop) and Ciel BD2 (Gara) has different stat.
Forget checking Shop version.
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Sat May 20, 2017 9:42 pm

I sure hope the calc's stat difference is making that build end with 42 str, cause if not that's a very awkward number to have when the max is 40...

Anyway, I decided to go with H.Glad and 2 normal grappler on her drill. Still working on her but I seem to be able to push her to 38/1 boost run with 40 str and around 780-ish HP. I don't see myself accomplishing much of anything in arena with all this thoarla/aletta/etc spam going on during campaigns and such but if anything it's the first melee bot I'd fully tune. Yay.

Thank you everyone for your replies!
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PostSubject: Re: Ciel Dragbucket D tuning   Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:26 pm

I am using the Shovel Version, and she rocks! One of my better melee bots. She can really dish out some damage, and the build I have planned should eventually have like 600 or so HP!

Here's mine in progress. I love how she's coming along. Just today I gave her the 3rd EX Melt on her Shovel Claw.
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