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 Seraph Crimrose Build Refining

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Dreamslayer
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PostSubject: Seraph Crimrose Build Refining   Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:54 am

I have very little resources in terms of parts already present, so I thought I'd try using the calc to come up with a build based on what I have. I came up with the following.

BD: Seraph Crimrose BDγ
 : Beam Bit(default)
 LG: LazFlamme LG [High Boost Beta] [High Boost Beta]
  BS: Griest BS2 [EX High Boost Beta] [Tech] <-- wrong BS, would be LazFlamme BS, I couldn't find it in the calc, so I just used Griest since it was close in cost to the LazFlamme. Stats given below are slightly off as a result, but the proper BS does have the same number of slots, so those are valid.
 HD: Seraph Crimrose HD
  HDAC: Witch Hat [High Boost Beta]
  FCAC: +1 tgh +5 capa [no slots] OR +1 STR [High Boost Beta]
 BS: Seraph Crimrose BS2
 AM: Lily Rain AM [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha]
  WP: Double Beam Machinegun [High Tech Alpha]
 AM: Lily Rain AM [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha]
  WP: Cosmic Cola [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha] (actually using a lightning weapon replica, but it has exact same stats as Cosmic Cola with the same # of slots)

[Config Check]
COST: OK
BS: OK
LG: OK
AURA: OFF

[Stats]
TYPE: 空
SIZE: S
COST: 1210
CAPA: 1260
HP: 444
STR: -2
TEC: 38
WLK: 5
FLY: 34
TGH: 9/10 (depends on accessory)

LEVEL: 10

[Cartridges]
Capacity +70×7
Enhance Internal Weapon×2
Float Dash

First off, I know I'd probably be better off with Tentrion AMs, but I was unsuccessful in rolling for it.
Secondly, I know I generally shouldn't Tune for core stats on the useful weapons (in this case the DBM), but since I didn't know what to do with it and it only had one slot, I figured I'd fill that with more tec for the moment and ask for a suggestion. The single Tech tune up on the BS can be replaced with something else in order to get to 40 tec or even a High Tech Alpha just to get to 39 tec. I figured it'd be worth losing maybe 1 or 2 tec for an easy tune but I'm not sure and wanted to ask on that as well. I also was considering trying to get a WBG with 3 slots on it and tune that for Rapid instead but until I can get that, the DBM is more accessible.

There's a lot of wasted cost here; it's mainly there to allow for suggestions for expanding what I've already got, or replacing weapons or adding different tunes. I could actually stick on wing arm joints at this point with that much spare cost, but I'd rather not go that route for now. I am actually over cost with this current setup without that last cost expansion, so I'd really like some way to fill up the costs. Accessories have not been kind to me....

I'm open to any suggestions with the following exception. I prefer to avoid gacha and absolutely refuse to RT gacha; however, as you may have gathered, RT shop is fine within reason.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: Seraph Crimrose Build Refining   Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:05 am

this build is really old. There's new technologies in play that allow much stronger builds on the same idea.

The general idea for seraph crimrose these days is dunk TGH to 1, ignore tuning FLY since you'll just spam wings, and tune triple CV to avoid being stunned. Use wing speed for evasion and tunnel things close range. Armor drive with HP carts and last stand help a lot. It's basically a suicide unit but with wing speed you are able to live long enough to do a lot of damage, especially with minimal size.

Spoiler:
 

everything here is UC. Ballista shooter mod is garapon only and is more effective. If you have 0cost 1slot amjs you can use them instead of a handheld to get a better build(604HP with arm joints).
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Dreamslayer
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PostSubject: Re: Seraph Crimrose Build Refining   Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:14 pm

@Winty wrote:
this build is really old. There's new technologies in play that allow much stronger builds on the same idea.

The general idea for seraph crimrose these days is dunk TGH to 1, ignore tuning FLY since you'll just spam wings, and tune triple CV to avoid being stunned. Use wing speed for evasion and tunnel things close range. Armor drive with HP carts and last stand help a lot. It's basically a suicide unit but with wing speed you are able to live long enough to do a lot of damage, especially with minimal size.

I saw part of that in my research. I only play Airs and saw that since the last time I'd played Seraph Crim years ago, people nowadays tend to make her suicidal in a way that she's only useful when her wings are out, after which she basically goes to die. I was trying to avert that with having decent fly outside of wings (not maxed since again, there's the wing reliance) and why I tried to focus on TEC. You're the first person to suggest actually completely screwing over TGH completely, though, which makes me somewhat uncomfortable, but the CV tune recommendation has been seconded before so I was leaning toward that already, that just confirmed it. I'm actually fine with dropping the second internal boost if I can get better leverage overall without it.

In reply to your proposed build, a couple of things; first, I'm very confused as to why you have short boost as opposed to float dash or some other cartridge. Mind explaining why you took away float dash to put on Short Boost? If you're going toward a hopping style, you might as well take off the second internal and put on quick land and do it properly. You've also removed a slot from the "cola", though I'm assuming that's because you've maxed out the capacity and therefore don't have the cost to spare to use it. I don't own any of the things you've listed (though I have some of the parts for each of what you named, just the wrong part, like Elme S. AM 3S instead of LG), nor are they available in the shop for me. If the entire set is Garapon, even if UC, I'd rather not go that route, as I said I'd really prefer avoiding it and that RT is fine within reason. Also, where do you get the accessories?

Before you reply, something I should've clarified earlier. I'm okay with wing reliance as a way to use her even with terribly low fly, but it seems you either go all in with her in an attempt to burst down what you can as fast as possible with your primary weapon, or you treat her as normal and don't do quite as well when winged but can survive a lot longer, usually until you're actually out of ammo. I'm trying to find a balance between the two so that once my wings are gone I'm not going to die easily afterward, but still do a lot of damage when I do have them out.
If you could keep that in mind in your reply, I'd appreciate it.

Oh, and I do have each of the Drives if there are nice cartridges to be had there.
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Kuzuha
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PostSubject: Re: Seraph Crimrose Build Refining   Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:28 pm

Because not all players use homing weapons. Short boost is there so it can mess up manual aiming.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: Seraph Crimrose Build Refining   Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:24 am

Short boost puts you back into the air. Float dash doesn't, it just allows quick movement near the ground. If you land, you just short boost and hit space bar and you're flying at a semi-decent height. You aren't playing a hopper style, you're just taking short boost so that you can get back into the air and start shooting again. Float dash is decent if you want to just run away, but that's not really the point of the build.

All of those parts are UC and can be bought during bazaar if you ask around and have some patience. The weapon is from Garapon, as are the silver headphones.
The cola is there because the ideal build, as I noted, doesn't use a cola but instead 2 arm joints with 1 slot and 0 cost on them. Colas and other related handhelds are not the first option to use since they have 10 cost and 1 stat on them, meaning you are paying 5 cost to gain 3 slots(assuming 5cost = 1 stat, which is standard) whereas using 0cost, 1slot AMJ or LGJ parts gives you 1 slot for free which allows better builds when you are low on slots.

As stated before, the silver headphones are from UC gara. The Sanae's fire piece is a limited time thing that you can't get right now, but it's not really important. the important part is that your accesories, together, give you 2 walk, 5hp, 5capa, and 2 slots. Silver headphones are walk+capa, sanae's fire is walk+hp. You can probably find walk+capa and walk+hp pieces in the angel coin shop to replace them and get the same stats that way.
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LazFlamme
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PostSubject: Re: Seraph Crimrose Build Refining   Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:11 am

@Dreamslayer wrote:
I only play Airs and saw that since the last time I'd played Seraph Crim years ago, people nowadays tend to make her suicidal in a way that she's only useful when her wings are out, after which she basically goes to die. I was trying to avert that with having decent fly outside of wings (not maxed since again, there's the wing reliance) and why I tried to focus on TEC.

Here's the problem: Being a somewhat outdated bot, Seraph Crim is really hard to use in nowadays's arena.
In today's meta, there's several things to take into consideration to actually survive:
1. HP
2. Absurd FLY (usually 34 to 38, sometimes 41 like the Seraph wings in question)
3. Absurd altitude
4. Absurd flight time
5. Accele Roll for dodging incoming missiles

But why? The main reason is due to the weapon tunes and the playstyles of anti-AIR bots nowadays - you would be expecting an ART with more than 4 guns vomiting bazooka shells to the point that dashing sideways or dropping altitude is the only methods of evasion, in which the latter is not recommended because of all the LND sharks around (Ivis, Elisa, Sylvia, Corona, shop Captain Sunny, etc.) Not to mention we have Homura/Lumiera Holx (homing with large hitbox), Icy/Mialy (remote weapons that shoot right at where you are) and Miruru/Perse (huge balls that actually ignores the anti homing your Seraph wings give). There's more, but I'm not gonna go into detail.

Now for the offensive: Other than melee, how's an AIR today going to dish out damage? We have:
1. Alpha strike (Haruka/Akane)
2. Steal boost (Airyad/Amlim)
3. High altitude long range gunner (Stella/Theiamillis)
4. Remote parts (Crystas/Fractulus Girl)

And now, meet status problems, the ultimate method of pushing your ranks upward in ANY match. Most builds nowadays have a very high chance of dealing status problems like Disorder, Waste Booster, Powerless, Charge Delay, Support Rejection, to name a few. Even boost steal and stun counts as status effects.
Why should I inflict status problems? It's because even if you did not kill your target, at least you scored in jamming that fella.

From what I can see in your build, it involves a weapon that's somewhat hard to hit, has low force and has no additional effects. Winty's build uses a bowgun, which requires aim and is so damn expensive yet it only works at specific situations (as far as my own play experience takes me). For all these reasons, people would prefer using a harder to obtain weapon from the Gara or the Aqua Parasol which is no longer obtainable.

Heck, personally I don't think any Seraph builds could be as aggressive as most the bots you can see in the arena lately, especially considering that Seraph Crim doesn't have Moving Burst, alpha builds aren't viable on her. But then again. who knows what wonders can we work on Seraph?

My personal joke build as a reference:
 

This build is for when I'm assuming the enemy team doesn't have any Pursuit bits and is strictly for anti-LND purposes only. Generally, I would have substituted Beam Shooter Mod for B Rosario Shooter (it used to be in Angel Coin shop a while back) because status problems. Alternatively, I could have got away without the AMJs since 34 FLY is somewhat enough for me. Maybe with Beezle BS and a handheld you could come up with better builds, but it's all up to your playstyle.

Ah, if only Aqua Parasol is bazaarable...
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