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 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!

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Sakura1
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PostSubject: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:02 pm

How does this look? Should I change anything? Which Drive Should I go after? Boost? Armor? Advice?
HurrDurrr FatPig:
 

Changelog
*Changed Weapons tunes
*Added More Hp


Last edited by Sakura1 on Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Diabolical
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PostSubject: Re: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:04 pm

Boost or bust.
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PostSubject: Re: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:09 pm

>3x GF
> [Great Force Beta] [Great Force Beta] [High Force Beta]

You wot m8?

You will want to get the 4th ammo, like force+force+supply or force+h.force+h.supply h.force+h.force+g.supply.
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PostSubject: Re: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:12 pm

@fggt wrote:
>3x GF
> [Great Force Beta] [Great Force Beta] [High Force Beta]

You wot m8?

You will want to get the 4th ammo, like force+force+supply or force+h.force+h.supply  h.force+h.force+g.supply.

>.> forgot I did 2x GF + HF

I remember a little why the 4th amo worked but =v= if you wont mind re-explaining it to me o3o?
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PostSubject: Re: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:17 pm

Explain what?
If you do either of the three tune sets above you will get 4 ammo on the cannon so you can shoot 4 times each reload = 40 shots total. I'm bad at math but:
51*30 = 1530
43*40 = 1720
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Sakura1
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PostSubject: Re: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:25 pm

@fggt wrote:
Explain what?
If you do either of the three tune sets above you will get 4 ammo on the cannon so you can shoot 4 times each reload = 40 shots total. I'm bad at math but:
51*30 = 1530
43*40 = 1720

Ahhh Okay Thnx o3o
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PostSubject: Re: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:56 am

How to make Lisel viable in this current meta?
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PostSubject: Re: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:44 am

the same way you always did lol
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PostSubject: Re: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:34 pm

Math doesn't account with gameplay, how long your bot lasts and how much ammo it had when it died, how long the ammo lasted, etc.
Fun fact, Eve's cannon does more total damage without tunes than with 3x GF. Another fact is that anything with supply tunes will deal more damage. But again, that's all by ignoring gameplay and other non mathematical factors.
That's why I prefer threads that say what people want to do, what's their issue, rather than just "tell me what to use".

Supply or force only builds are both good, but which of them you want depends on how long you want the ammo to last or how long you can last before running out.
Supply does make a difference if almost every shot counts (if 5 shots do nothing, it's just as good as 3x GF) and you spam it a lot. I'm not a fan of Lisel because of how she limits build variety (stupid missiles), but some times I think about just making a cheap cannon only build that spams that behind someone and dies before the middle of the match, because it's stupid, but if it works... But for this ammo is useless since it's meant to deal as much damage as possible and as fast as possible, so force is better than ammo, which is why supply is most of the time, useless, it gives more total damage but DPS despite not being everything, it still matters a lot, since you want to kill things fast, which is what Lisel should do to airs, kill them fast, and for that, math using the base force isn't the best thing to do.

I'd actually grab someone's air and shoot at it with both builds (all after another, no pauses), because if 4 shots end up doing less damage than just 3 OR only does slightly more damage (because tgh is a thing), ammo lasting longer isn't much of a benefit unless your 4th shot isn't on tgh reduction.

TL;DR, Supply always gives more total and unmodified damage but it's useless on 99.99% of the things in CB, Lisel can be an exception if you make every shot count.
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PostSubject: Re: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:55 pm

hmm. sounds like I'll just keep 3x GF on her. I think it was a mistake to 2x g cappa her though. Should have just build her with only using her cannon for dmg.
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PostSubject: Re: 3x GF Lisel Build?!?!   Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:04 pm

@VietPho wrote:
hmm. sounds like I'll just keep 3x GF on her. I think it was a mistake to 2x g cappa her though. Should have just build her with only using her cannon for dmg.

Considering how fast you usually die, yeah, getting more ammo isn't good for you since you are not making use of it.
For the supply you have to make sure you use almost all the ammo to make it matter, else you are doing less damage for nothing. That's why I say that people need to find out things like how long they last, how much ammo they had when they usually die, and how they want to play the units (go full hard on, run out of ammo fast and die fast to push the enemy back, or make the bot last so their cost isn't bloated but deal less DPS/DPM).
Basically, whatever floats your boat. There's no certain science into building bots, there's just retarded things, if you avoid the retarded things, you will most likely end up with a decent bot, then there's just optimizing things around.
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