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 AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions

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PinTek
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PostSubject: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:55 am

So got this guy the other night with my 3rd DX coin as I have a thing for multipedal mechs and had a few other parts laying around putting this together I started to wonder how many low level tunes could I cram into this and get its stats pretty darn up there for damage an wlk

This is how it currently looks


Spoiler:
 

I'm sure there's better setups but with the albaHD just feels right for a sub weapon basic homing? check! easy to farm with? check! Ammo somewhat there? check!

Why not 40tech? it take 2 more tech to get it to do 1 more force from 45force on the railgun and  albaHD tops out at 38tech 25force

first real serious look at tuning a bot with this one I'm sure there are vast improvements but with so little needing to min max to get tech or wlk up there I think I achieved something!

Also legs stay I've ran shorter legs with this core and I friendly fire all day cause everyone gets in front of me with the taller legs I shoot over them with the exceptions of some rather tall Lsize.
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:23 pm

If you aren't saving fly for boost run, there is no reason to tune high run over high run alpha(same with the high techs).  That saves 5 capa per tune.  While tank tunes are fine, high tanks are really inefficient.  A +1 stat tune is 5 cost and a life tune is 10 cost for 15 hp, so a tank at 15 cost is the same as those 2, plus saves a slot.  high tank is 2 stats and 30 hp for 40, but 5 + 5 + 10 + 10 is only 30, so they waste 10 cost.

35 walk is the last non-land breakpoint, but walk arts are free food for lands without high tier boost run or at least a dash cart.  Fly based is more practical and easier to build.

Always hit 40 tec if possible.  Those breakpoints in the calc are for single hits on a target with no tgh reduction.  Your blastrail is multihit, so you want all the tec you can get because the damage formulas round and every little bit helps.

Edit: Also use accs that give 2 stats or 1 stat and 5 capa. You are missing out on a free stat point by using that flower pop.
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:13 pm

@PinTek wrote:
Why not 40tech? it take 2 more tech to get it to do 1 more force from 45force on the railgun and  albaHD tops out at 38tech 25force
TEC breakpoints shouldn't be followed. The listed damage only applies to the first hit, which will be followed up by TGH reduced damage.
40 TEC should be tuned when possible to get the most damage out of your guns.
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:00 pm

Thanks for the input I greatly appreciate it will look to squeeze some more tech into it!
And thanks for pointing out the wlk break limit on none lnd I know walking art is mainly food but this build is indirect firesupport so... if a angry lnd is coming in my direction chances are there is a sup bubble healing some more wounded easy kills, the higher wlk is really to help with moving to the next staging area to give fire support.
Similar reason why I didn't subract from fly though I could kill str to a min to use wonder balance?
Wish i had a +1 wlk with a extra stat acc for that slot just dont have one laying around..

but greatly appreciate the info and clarification!
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:24 pm

The difference between 8/40 and 5/40(in Dia's) is negligible. You will most likely want to use wolfraid to escape melees, so just having positive balance is good enough.
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:30 pm

Hey, I just saw you using this build today!


This kinda makes me want an Achtsieben EL of my own.

Another suggestion. Use more High Tech Alphas instead of High Techs. If you want to keep the Wonder Bit useful, make sure the STR is at least 1.

If you manage to free up enough cost, a Clearance or Two might be useful too.
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:06 pm

Well I'll be someone noticed me! XD
The setup does work well just know your place on the field and don't go front line! though twin nebula tree is the bane of my exsistance

I'm sure this still could use some work but here is another attempt at figuring tuning
Spoiler:
 

Will defiantly look to use wonder balance to help with wb functionality and extra tgh to help with any minor fire coming at me at range so I can shout back more!
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:56 pm


  • Inefficient to use high run tunes when you aren't even using boost run and have leftover fly.
  • Flower Pop is not a good accessory, as mentioned above.
  • Great tunes, in most cases, are bad.
  • Tuning tough is bad, in general. 3 tough won't help.
  • Speeder tunes are awful, as with all "combination" tunes.


Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:49 pm

@Relict? wrote:

  • Inefficient to use high run tunes when you aren't even using boost run and have leftover fly.
  • Flower Pop is not a good accessory, as mentioned above.
  • Great tunes, in most cases, are bad.
  • Tuning tough is bad, in general. 3 tough won't help.
  • Speeder tunes are awful, as with all "combination" tunes.


Spoiler:
 

The build might happen to be better if the high run stay and the tec tunes are converted to high tec beta until no spare stats are left. I didn't calc it to confirm, but with ex tunes, it usually works.

Edit: I changed the handheld out of muscle memory, but even if you put back the fireflower, it changes nothing but a single tune.

Spoiler:
 

Same amount of Ex tunes but more HP (though different tunes but same parts anyway). If you are doing Tec + wlk/fly but keeping the bit and using Ex tunes, usually using Ex High (non alpha/beta) + Ex High beta is better than Ex high alpha + Ex high alpha.
For wlk builds, you use high run + high tec beta (use tec because it uses 2 useless stats, for fly builds you use high tec + high fly beta. It is harder to do without 100%, since high has lower % than alpha/beta, but it does give a really good amount of HP back in some bots. On some bots it doesn't work as well, it depends a lot on their stats. Like a gunner with a lot of Fly won't be able to spend all fly in tec tunes, so they can still use Ex high run alpha and every time you do 2 of those tunes, you get to do a life tune as well.

The math goes like this.
Spoiler:
 

I'm just being as specific not really because of you (Relict), since I believe that you would understand my point with a brief explanation, but for those who might not see it as easily to somewhat understand it better.

As an end note, you don't just simply throw those tunes in, you have to mix them up in a way that you get the max benefit from it, since it can also lead you to less efficient builds if done wrong, and it's only as beneficial if you use Ex tunes, without ex tunes you are just making it harder to tune without any benefits.
(Just saying this because some people tend to overuse the new tricks they learn and then only make crap with it instead, because there's exceptions.)


Last edited by God is a Cat Girl on Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:13 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:10 am

Well just got a 1 slot berry earing for +1wlk +1str.
I still don't understand how min maxing stats is more efficient than maxing stats without destroying others.

You would think you wouldn't notice a 3tgh difference but I felt that difference 1v1 between a mild tuned build arms and a psycho formula which is at the same range as this builds tgh difference in stock to upgraded.

Still though in all this things performance has been a nice surprise in arena pot shot to the moon rack up kills
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:41 am

EL is da babes
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:19 am

@PinTek wrote:
Well just got a 1 slot berry earing for +1wlk +1str.
I still don't understand how min maxing stats is more efficient than maxing stats without destroying others.

You would think you wouldn't notice a 3tgh difference but I felt that difference 1v1 between a mild tuned build arms and a psycho formula which is at the same range as this builds tgh difference in stock to upgraded.

Still though in all this things performance has been a nice surprise in arena pot shot to the moon rack up kills

It's more efficient because some stats are just doing nothing in there, so you might as well use them. EL doesn't use STR unless you add in a melee weapon, so it's useless. If it's a wlk build without movement carts and no boost run, you won't be using fly for anything, and the benefit of keeping a few points of fly (to occasionally fly a bit), is literally nothing comparing to the stats that you get by getting rid of it.

And you have to say which difference you felt, because with just 3 points, you can only feel a reduction in stun, which in this meta is barely noticeable by 3 points. Damage reduction only kicks in after the first hit, so you have to be memorizing the damage of every hit to notice any difference.
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:18 pm

well the biggest difference with my play style was not getting stunned by long distance fodder as often which with a lower tgh felt like a slight breeze would flip me around.
I like having the extra boost even without a "mobility" cart as it gives me enough airtime i could say... hover as high as I can and pray I rail that lnd thats right below me enough for team mate to kill or fly across that large gap.

I'd rather have a acc that gave +1wlk and a little hp but don't have any avail in my inventory folks said the flowpop was rubish and I ended up with a acc that gave a extra stat with wlk so dam if I do dam if I dam if I don't XD

Min maxing seams just less balanced to me that having left over stats that might not get used all the time but may be now and then handy.

This thing kinda mirrors a quad I used in another game that wasnt the fastest light frame and wasn't nessesary to have boosters on it but when that games meta went more melee oriented it confused folks that I kept to the same setup wasting a weapon slot for a flight booster yet I still was getting same number of kills using same odd piloting habits to keep out of trouble.

So nobody get to angry with me for being a little stubborn I always have had a odd way of using things save that for when I ask about what to do with a redsquealer achtsieben 1 bliztkrieg setup when I get around to posting its build up XD
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:11 pm

Flight time is only affected by buffs or by the Drive cart, the Fly stat doesn't alter the flight time in any way, and only changes the flight speed (Horizontally, vertically is a fixed rate only changed by the quick jump cart).

Minor spare stats barely make a difference, and even when they do make a difference it's just once in while, and you've been losing much more in the long run.
But it's your bot, so...

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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:45 pm

Thanks for clarification and understanding least it all taught me a few things and gave me some insight otherwised I'd gone an made this really wrong XD
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:46 pm

Boost drive would give you better mobility than trying to keep 7 fly.
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:25 am



i have my old low cost for fun , as you see , discard useless stats
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:46 am

must be the only person in cben that doens't own that bsj i swear
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:03 pm

@PinTek wrote:
must be the only person in cben that doens't own that bsj i swear

I just got an extra one. If you want, maybe I could sell you one next bazaar.

Then again, I might be getting this Achtsieben soon too, and I might want to use it on my own one. I dunno.
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:54 pm

I thank you for the consideration but I would say hang on to it that bsj does set my old off with not matching up well XD
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:55 pm

Moulin BSJ can be bought from other player, or won from DX UC Garapon. I'd recommend you to roll it from time to time, as it provides a lot of nice items (or you just run around nagging your friends until they gib naiz stufz ;3)
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:12 pm

Today, I just got my own Achtsieben EL. I'm making a similar build myself right now.

Mine is different in that I use Hoverion AMs instead of Accel Saber AMs, since I think Accel Saber AM is overused, and I thought the Hoverion AMs looked better on it. Also, mine doesn't have Raclaboros AMJ (since I don't have those, and if I did, I'd save them for a bot who needs them more). Though I found that he doesn't really need those AMJs anyways, and can do well without them.

Oh, I tried that Cannonballer HL parts version too, that Isdelft suggested. I worked it out in the Calc, but I didn't like how low HP that build had.

Here's my build instead. Maybe this might work too. Just started on it today, and as of now I have 2 tune-ups on it so far.
Some tune-ups in it can easily be replaced with EX Tunes, for more HP.
Spoiler:
 


Last edited by Armored Entity on Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:12 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:20 pm

Yeah low hp EL just seams like a baaad idea if a that air moe with the blast rail shows up >.<
Still been putting mine together i'm sure its not efficient but its working alright dps isn't really enough for front line work in pvp but mid field an back field fire support seams to be more where it shines!

Neat build didn't think about hoverion am's though I use them so much on other bots surprisingly just a really nice shaped proportioned am with descent stats
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:09 am

Probably the wrong section to ask, but how does EL's AM parts work? And how good/bad is it?
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PostSubject: Re: AchtSieben EL build questions/suggestions   Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:51 am

the EL's ams are kinda similar to misside but with slight homing? (could use a little bit of clarification) am but with a much higher arc to them you almost have to stare at the ground to fire at things right in front of you...
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