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 A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader

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JadeCicada
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PostSubject: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 10:55 am

Crimson Crusader is a 4* Core Tune that was introduced in the second batch of core tunes added to the game. This is a quick guide not about how to use the tune or how to build around it. It is simply meant as a quick guide to understanding how, and more importantly, when it works.

Table of Contents:
 

A Quick Overview of the Tune

Crimson Crusader causes you to gain the Crimson Veil buff (immunity to stun/knockback/draw/etc) for 1 second when the first attack of a subweapon string is from an eligible subweapon. It's a 50% base chance, 100% chance if you Great Success. You can recognize it working because the bot will emit red rings during the CV period, as demonstrated in the below image.

A legendary demonstration of Crimson Crusader:
 

It also makes a distinct snapping sound when it triggers, and if you're the pilot of the bot, then the easiest identification is that the CV buff icon shows up in the upper left. Any more talk here and we'd be wasting time.

What makes a subweapon eligible to trigger Crimson Crusader?

The description of the tune explains that Crimson Crusader works on "melee-tuneable Subweapon". What does this mean?

There's a trait that *any* subweapon can have. This is what we'll call "melee-tuneable". If a subweapon has this trait, it means two things. It means that if it has slots, it can be tuned with Gladiator, Grappler, and Status tunes in the Cosmos Pot. It also means that it can work with Crimson Crusader.

For the most part, any "missile" icon subweapon (all the ones that require lockons to use, and are indicated by a missile icon in the UI) do not have this trait, and only "sword" icon subweapons have it. Not all of them. For example, 3WAY daggers, Combination Daggers, and the like, they do not have this trait so they cannot process those tunes or Crimson Crusader. This is how we know that it's a trait of its own that is set on an individual basis for each subweapon.

Probably the most important thing to understand, and half the purpose of this guide, is that this trait of "melee-tuneable" is completely independent of whether or not the weapon has or can ever have slots to tune.. Slots merely make it easy to determine whether or not a given subweapon has the trait. But a weapon doesn't magically lose the trait once it has no slots - a 0s Cutter is still "melee-tuneable". This has its biggest impact on parts that never get slots. Prior to the introduction of Crimson Crusader, this trait was irrelevant on these weapons. But now that the core tune exists, suddenly this trait has become important again.

How do I test if a subweapon has the "melee-tuneable" trait?

If it has slots, check the cosmos pot. If it allows the tunes, it has the trait, no matter whether or not it even makes sense for you to be able to put those tunes on that weapon. If it doesn't allow the tunes, then it does not have the trait, no matter whether or not it would make every bit of sense that it would work.

If the part naturally never has slots, then the only way to find out, unfortunately, is to SCIENCE it. Fortunately for you, lots of people like to science these things. I'll post some of the combined findings of folk. If you yourself have done science, or know people who have, feel free to help me include additional entries.

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List of Tested Weapons

For obvious reasons that boil down to "You can figure this out on your own and the list would be enormous if I did otherwise), this list is not going to list any weapon that can be generated with slots. Only those that cannot.

I seem to recall some measure of testing done towards BD weapons in general not being melee-tuneable. However, I can't actually remember what has been tested.

Please let me know, most easily by posting in this guide, if you have done any tests of your own to determine whether or not a weapon is melee-tuneable.

Things that Are Melee-Tuneable:
 


Things that Are Not Melee-Tuneable:
 

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Changelog

The aforenamed Changelog:
 

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Last edited by JadeCicada on Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:11 pm; edited 14 times in total (Reason for editing : Added Therese subs)
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aosepsa
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 11:37 am

4 out of 10

You are forgetting the main reasons; teaching the basic efficiency and benefit of Crimson Crusader
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JadeCicada
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 12:17 pm

"This is a quick guide not about how to use the tune or how to build around it. It is simply meant as a quick guide to understanding how, and more importantly, when it works."

It's not forgetting if it's deliberately left out. I could've written a lot more if I did want to discuss things like why anyone would use it in the first place and how to utilize it to the most effect. There's a lot of nice tricks that are out there for CC (of which most of my bots that even have the tune, do so for said tricks), but that's outside the scope of intent for this guide. If I did more, this wouldn't be the quick guide I want it to be. The main goal of this guide is surrounding the simple concept of divorcing the understanding of "Melee-tuneable" from "Has slots to tune melee". Partly so that I don't have to explain the mechanics a seventh time in the Tim chat.
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Arti
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 12:20 pm

Istina's presence on that list baffles me, who the hell CC'd their istina
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 12:23 pm

@Arti wrote:
Istina's presence on that list baffles me, who the hell CC'd their istina

bill nye the science guy.
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 12:25 pm

@Arti wrote:
Istina's presence on that list baffles me, who the hell CC'd their istina
"I wonder if I can get CC to proc from Flare Dash." - guy who would CC Istina
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 12:26 pm

yeah but they thought too much about if they could to think about if they should
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 12:28 pm

@Arti wrote:
yeah but they thought too much about if they could to think about if they should

maybe they wanted to give her evil halberd and use the tail gun to shoot people for boost while they flew around and shanked people with evil halberd like I don't think that's the SMARTEST Thing to do but maybe they wanted to do that.
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 12:48 pm

that sounds hilarious actually

reminds me of minato-kun's bikini eve build a little bit
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 12:53 pm

isn't it good for escaping with flare dash + accel roll + cc? ppl would still get stunlocked from normal accel rolling anyway
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyTue Jan 27, 2015 6:58 pm

There wouldn't be enough time to roll with CV since it lasts only 1 second.
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptySun Feb 15, 2015 10:32 pm

Can you make a test for Manimo lance?
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aosepsa
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyMon Feb 16, 2015 12:46 am

Manimo Lance doesn't work with CC, already confirmed with BuBuMon
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JadeCicada
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PostSubject: Re: A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader   A Quick Guide to Understanding Crimson Crusader EmptyMon Feb 16, 2015 6:04 am

EvraeGrace had already tested it as well, which is why I have the Manimo Wing data under "Not Melee-tuneable". Did not list the lance since it has slots and those already indicate the capability of the core tune to work.

I did a few random tests because I both had random UC on hand, too many Plate Cosmos IVs, and enough burning curiosity. The main post has been updated accordingly.

Things I'd like to see confirmed at some point would be...

Mizutama and Machina Kali's clone's subs. The melee, the priming... even deployment might be worth a check. There's a whole lotta 0s subs to check.
Hanna's Zwei Kanone (lots of people have CC on her already and I imagine it isn't compatible because lockon, but I like confirmation)
Pina's Drill Uprising (same as above)
Giganberg BULK's handhelds are listed as 0s in the calc, which I'm not entirely sure how accurate that is. If it is correct, though, confirming those would be nice.
Rampernel LG@
ALE Crimrose's Liftoff (Judging by all other take-off systems, it shouldn't though)
Hiverion R's Slow Turn Punch AMs (and probably his LG anyway, though it's likely it won't)
Flapjack BB's AM swords



Last edited by JadeCicada on Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:38 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Updated a bit of stuffs and also added some other curiosities.)
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