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 i love this game

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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:39 am

alright, time for a lesson on air to air combat.


if you look at OLD VIDEOS, you'll see the 'standard' general purpose air build was a mini zook and a beam weapon of some sort - lasers(beta only obv), ABR, limited plasma gun, wide beam gun, etc.
The idea here was to shoot lands with the beam weapon and shoot airs with mini zook and you were ready for anything!

These builds died out a few months into official release when alpha air builds rose out of EVE gara and the "suicide seraph" builds came out of sugoi gara - people were content to have danmaku battles in air to air encounters or just ignore air and tunnel things on the ground with the DBMG seraphs while relying 3 uses of wings to outspeed other airs while they hunted lands and missile-based artillery to death.

Later, people found powered laser and ballista shooter were generally too expensive to allow them to carry around a mini zook as well, so they just didn't take it - and found that when you have 40tec on a fully tuned beam weapon, the mini-zook's low force and bad damage distribution(only 40% blast damage) starts to show the downsides of the 60 cost gun.

So airs boilded down to single weapon airs, which later picked up even stronger weapons like the MLG, and alpha airs which had...a variety of things over the years.

So what the fuck is the point of the minizook? There isn't one. It's an old as fuck weapon that is outclassed by the new shit.

If you want air to air, there's much better things to use. Or just not caring and shooting them with a good beam weapon.

Here's our test builds
http://i.imgur.com/Ir8jDzi.png
you PROBABLY won't be tuning force on any serious mini zook build. I'd assume 2x grapid + para or 2x grapid + hshooter or 3x grapid or something like that.
Beam guard because any air-hunting build should have it, yes?

http://i.imgur.com/bnCj3lW.png
and here's an untuned MLG.


http://i.imgur.com/G4dTjLG.png
http://i.imgur.com/mRT1IDW.png

wow

now obviously this is a fucking stupid test since the mini zook fires a lot faster and the MLG is a single-shot charge weapon, but let's be real here and get an ACTUAL air to air weapon.
http://i.imgur.com/6AsNJ1C.png
this motherfuck is the real deal.

http://i.imgur.com/AXPzHGc.png
this is what 11 consecutive hits did (i held the mouse down for a bit, random number really but it was what I consider to be a "quick burst" rather than sustained fire)
that's just over 100 damage in the time you'd get 2-3 hits out of the mini zook.
2 hits from zook:
http://i.imgur.com/i0lVlBe.png
not really comparable.
Additionally, the compact gatling does good damage to everything due to being shell damage, though it suffers against targets with high TGH. It also has a decent stun rate despite being a rapid fire weapon.


Last edited by Winty on Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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colfenor1337
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:10 am

this is a really enlightening stuff Winty-san. Thanks for your pov Smile
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:51 am

Winty will never cover Aqua Parasol despited being a good Air to Air weapon, because Winty just won't use it.

The weapon speaks for itself anyway, so no explanation needed.

Spoiler:
 

A beam shooter mod with x1 GRapid Beta, x1 High Air Force and x1 Paralyze or x1 Great Force, however....

Pic courtesy of Uguuri.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:18 am

@Shance wrote:
Winty will never cover Aqua Parasol despited being a good Air to Air weapon, because Winty just won't use it.

I won't cover all the random things there are to be used because there's a lot of them.
I provided two examples. the first was a bullshit comparison about single hit damages to show the power of single weapon builds, and the second was about using shell-type weapons.
aqua parasol falls into the latter category. I'm not going to go over all the shell type weapons you can put on airs, just like I'm not going to go over all the beam weapons that people use in builds these days.

These are simple examples, not a detailed list of every weapon ever.

and yes I do dislike aqua parasol. I tried using one on my tierogue for a bit and then switched to MLG.
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:40 pm

Guess I found a new weapon to use on my crimhorse
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 3:57 am

CLAN FIGHT ANALYSIS
TuMadre

Not much to say here. I start out by hypershotting an ART to death to make my life easier later on - probably could have picked a better target, but the player in question is a nerdlord so I killed him first.
The enemy clan was content to sit on their asses and let me kill them with fluene buffs. We didn't really abuse the map by pushing them back to the split spawns, just kept them at their PS and whittled them down for the majority of the match. Fluene VERY strong for my aura air. Easy carry.


PhantomStar

More of the same, really. I start out by taking out a crystas build, then just slowly take apart this team. Fluene allows for constant aura and refills ammo, the one problem that the build has. The crystas comes back to be a pain later but it's not a huge issue. Easy game easy life.

Burn Me Baby

Start of REAL MATCHES. Right off the bat, I attempt to replicate my actions in the previous two matches by selecting a target and activating hyper shot. BMB has all their people in one place and I end up in a pretty bad spot, but the majority of my team is there as well and I'm not immediately killed. I don't even take much damage despite landing in the middle of 5 people.
Something breaks my arm, greatly limiting my effectiveness. I sit around still alive for longer than I should have before I die to random blast railguns.
Momiji gameplay is pretty straightforward - run around, throw dirks, and slash at artillery. My momiji is a 20str 20tec build with dual slayers - the perfect thing go with fluene. I play pretty risky, and manage to get away with it until I chase an amy too far and then hop in the wrong direction on the way out, but my team has had strong control throughout the entire match so it's alright.
Overall, this is the kind of close, "push and pull" matches. Both teams have relatively strong supports, and part of the team's combat units try to probe at the backline while the others defend said backline, the forward units cycling back to heal. The team that manages to catch aggressors out better secures the momentum, and can slowly gain control unless they start to make too many mistakes.

NFA vs NightOfTim

I want to bitch and say that we lost because etherlight disconnected partway through(and then never came back in future matches) but there were a lot more problems than that.
Looking at the radar at the start, you see a land doing...something. It's davidrain lagging across the map. Fun!
Obviously this is a problem. I head down to grab fluene buff and get pulled into fight him. First issue there - should have set up in the cave or on the cliff, not at the powerspot. Not against this. We lose a lot of momentum right off the start because of that.
I try to make it up by taking out 2 airs with my hypershot.
1:53 I didn't refresh my aura the last time I went back, so I run out here. Kills my personal momentum right there and I have to reposition for hypershot when I could have killed more squishy targets and left CAV to my team.
3:17 etherlight drops
3:25 I don't pick up an auto-repair buff here, but I don't even notice it. I die shortly after. OOPS!
4:00 at this point it's pretty much over. I'm not looking at the BP, so I don't know this, but they're in our spawn and it's really bad for us.
4:16 I'm not a smart man.
4:20 i get high and go into HERO MODE.
5:20 Still in tunnel mode, not paying attention to anything - i ignore what is probably a friendly regina field in order to shoot the alba.
5:45 still in tunnel mode, I actually had no idea we were this low on BP. Nor did I know my HP was this low. Watch your HUD, kids.

TakeItEasy

It's my intention, at the start, to pop aura, get behind the eve, and then hypershot her ass. I mis-manage my boost and end up in a very awkward position with only a small amount of boost gauge left, and retreat and go shoot at some lands which have their TGH reduction already active - not the best use of my hypershot, but whatever. Bad plays.
1:30 some shit happens, I take a bunch of damage, utok(my fluene) dies. SITUATION CRITICAL.
2:10 I get the eve fight I was looking for. Sadly I don't have fluene buff so I run out of aura, drop to the ground, and die. We're down by a lot of points but then like 3 of the enemy team die all at once.
the boys manage to even the score(team 2gud)
3:13 i want this...thing...to die. It's some sort of alpha hoverion with barrier shot weapons on it. Like, maximum pansy coward mode. You sit back and let your bits do the work and you don't like being shot at either? Wow gay. The regina makes my life hard but eventually I get it.
4:04 did you know that with tough wonderbit and balanced stats, patty scythebits have approximately 200 HP each?
4:35 it's my old friend, the vagina artillery build
for most of this I manage to use hops and logs to avoid a lot of shit, while actually paying attention to my HP. I end up getting clipped by an ivis while attempting to heal, which ends my fun.
i was rather tempted to try to end on a chibi for the style points, but I didn't want to risk messing around with only 6k bp difference. Considering we lose 2 more people right after I spawn, I feel I made the right choice. I don't get any awards anyway so rip.

INNOVATOR
saddest match. I'm tired after writing all that so I'm making this short.
I waste my hypershot at the start by double-tapping the 1 key. OOPS.
Remembering the last match, I got worried about utok at the start and focused on platter. Should have trusted team and helped alathon rush them.
4:40 did I mention I hate barrier arm builds? I don't get the kill here because of all the disruption by his team. Pretty big mistake, should have left when I forced him back from the PS.
7:25 I think I had bits on me? Or maybe it was just stray shots. i die because I'm not paying attention.
pretty bad performance by the team as a whole.
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DavidRain
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 4:50 am

@Winty wrote:

Looking at the radar at the start, you see a land doing...something. It's davidrain lagging across the map. Fun!
Obviously this is a problem. I head down to grab fluene buff and get pulled into fight him. First issue there - should have set up in the cave or on the cliff, not at the powerspot. Not against this. We lose a lot of momentum right off the start because of that.

Sorry about that ><
I hope it wasn't too bad
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 10:04 am

Which is why you don't play lands when you don't have first world internet, play arts/airs and not much of your lag will be noticed
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 10:26 am

@Phantomhive wrote:
Which is why you don't play lands when you don't have first world internet, play arts/airs and not much of your lag will be noticed

Until you meet Apenia(?)'s Sledge, and before that, air loop VE.
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 10:51 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZIOi8PmJSM&feature=youtu.be

With reference to thread
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 2:44 pm

@fggt wrote:
@Phantomhive wrote:
Which is why you don't play lands when you don't have first world internet, play arts/airs and not much of your lag will be noticed

Until you meet Apenia(?)'s Sledge, and before that, air loop VE.
this guy gets it
it really doesn't help the server itself is pretty shit sometimes
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 2:55 pm

@Winty wrote:
CLAN FIGHT ANALYSIS


PhantomStar

More of the same, really. I start out by taking out a crystas build, then just slowly take apart this team. Fluene allows for constant aura and refills ammo, the one problem that the build has. The crystas comes back to be a pain later but it's not a huge issue. Easy game easy life.

i was a pain in the ass ; w ; u say ; w ; but ; w ; armada ; w ; felt more of a pain ; w ;
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 3:19 pm

@fggt wrote:
@Phantomhive wrote:
Which is why you don't play lands when you don't have first world internet, play arts/airs and not much of your lag will be noticed

Until you meet Apenia(?)'s Sledge, and before that, air loop VE.

Or some guy from NightOfTim with a hacatocles parts bot that doesn't fly, only warps. One second he's at 400 range, the next he's right in front of your face blasting 100's.
I couldn't even see if he had float dash or short boost, because when he used it, he would just vanish and warp to either side.

Lagging Berz is pretty annoying too. Had to fight one yesterday, it wasn't fun (and I'm not even talking about the tackle, which thankfully never got to hit me with it).
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 3:37 pm

These were very upsetting videos. Nobody even bothered to gt rid of your SUPs. I cry.

Why isn't CF low lat btw?
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 4:30 pm

@Zwiebel Force wrote:
These were very upsetting videos. Nobody even bothered to gt rid of your SUPs. I cry.

Why isn't CF low lat btw?

It looked like CAV and two others made a run for them and chased them back, near the end of the Tim fight. You can see him move into the tunnel and the supports weren't in it; you can also see CAV on the radar.
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 4:30 pm

Cause that would be nonsense and ppl would complain about lag even more :V
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 4:51 pm

@Zwiebel Force wrote:
These were very upsetting videos. Nobody even bothered to gt rid of your SUPs. I cry.

Why isn't CF low lat btw?

Because a warpin nigga is the scariest sight you'll ever lay your eyes on.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 5:07 pm

@Zwiebel Force wrote:
These were very upsetting videos. Nobody even bothered to gt rid of your SUPs. I cry.

Why isn't CF low lat btw?

CS would prefer CF to be populated and bad rather than unpopulated and good.
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 6:16 pm

@Zwiebel Force wrote:
Nobody even bothered to gt rid of your SUPs. I cry.
?????????:
 
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 6:19 pm

dat nigga jesus
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Sun May 04, 2014 7:11 pm

@Winty wrote:
CS would prefer CF to be populated and bad rather than unpopulated and good.
Oh I understand. That makes sense.

TBH I let some of the vids run in the background, while browsing other boards. Me sorry.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Mon May 12, 2014 3:20 am

i'd do another CF breakdown but it was basically just NFA running 5 people without a medic because everyone else bailed when they learned there were not tickets to be had.

PS i love this game
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Wed May 14, 2014 1:58 am

Spoiler:
 

let's talk about this shit. Look at all the sick builds I finish.

Ok, some people may say she's not as broken as other shit due to having capa issues preventing her from being able to wield double cross shooters and a weapon booster, or not getting 800 HP like certain alpha airs, or whatever you want to try to say.

But let's ignore her weapons for a moment(silly because they're REALLY GOOD except for the "beam missilles") and look at the HP issue.

This bitch NEVER DIES.
This is THE "tank air" core. THE CORE. Not because of LODSAHP, but because of FREE TANK STATS everywhere. First by noting she just gets 17 TGH for some reason. Why? I don't know, but she needs it. Goes great with stun regain, the cart she gets, to prevent dying.

Then there's this.
You all know about this, we talked about it. When she is shooting, she takes less damage. FREE TANK STATS. Pretty silly, but since it's only during MB it's not constant. It's just there MOST OF THE TIME. Also any stuns break it since they break moving burst, though for some reason she has 17 tgh and not 12 like other air alpha moes. Not exactly huge, but it's a decent amount of damage reduction.


This is like a free guard cart against anything that hits her in the back, all the time. Except blast damage obv. Anyway, this means that when she turns around and runs away, you do less damage to her.

Obviously, when you look at her tgh + stun regain + free all guard + backhit reduction + beam guard(which you'll probably take) it doesn't really matter that you don't have 800hp because you can still get over 500 without too much dedication and then just not die.

also her weapons are better than any other alpha moe.
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Wed May 14, 2014 3:16 am

i love chained voxes
i love to right click things
i love barrier arts
i love remote shot bits
i love cosmic break
and all its messed up builds
boom de ya da boom de ya da
boom de ya da boom de ya da

i love to score feed
i love to tune three slows
i love my ping speed
watch me melee through walls
i love this damn game
and all its broken bots
boom de ya da boom de ya da
boom de ya da boom de ya da

i love our forums
i love voxing thin air
i love movement subs
i'm jetting outta here!
i love this whole game
and all its crazy shit

boom de ya da boom de ya da
boom de ya da boom de ya da
boom de ya da boom de ya da
...

BONUS ROUND: guess who sings each line!
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StickyKeys
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PostSubject: Re: i love this game   Wed May 14, 2014 3:34 am

@BARILLIAN wrote:
i love chained voxes
i love to right click things
i love barrier arts
i love remote shot bits
i love cosmic break
and all its messed up builds
boom de ya da boom de ya da
boom de ya da boom de ya da

i love to score feed
i love to tune three slows
i love my ping speed
watch me melee through walls
i love this damn game
and all its broken bots
boom de ya da boom de ya da
boom de ya da boom de ya da

i love our forums
i love voxing thin air
i love movement subs
i'm jetting outta here!
i love this whole game
and all its crazy shit

boom de ya da boom de ya da
boom de ya da boom de ya da
boom de ya da boom de ya da
...

BONUS ROUND: guess who sings each line!

The "i love to tune three slows" one is probably BoneToKill. The "i love voxing thin air" is ExRumia.

Edit: I'm retarded. It says "each line". Fixed.
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