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 Stat / movement cart breakpoints

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PostSubject: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:31 pm

Since we still have quite a bit of uncertainty concerning breakpoints, I figured that we should make a sticky where we have most of that in one place.

I know Noa has a lovely sticky concerning Boost Run, Short Boost (both for LND and non-LND), normal walking, normal running, and stun regain right here (http://www.cosmicbreakfanforum.com/t7429-boost-run-short-boost-etc-etc-charts). But still, there's no sticky concerning Sway, Assault Step, etc.

From the top, then.


STR / TEC Breakpoints

Trick section! Just another reminder that breakpoints doesn't really exist here. The little damage value shown when you hover your mouse over the weapon in cosmiccalc? That only applies to the first hit, since the damage of successive hits is lowered because of TGH. In this category: the more, the better.



Boost Run Breakpoints (LND)

From Noa's topic:
 


I've been told that the chart also applies to non-LNDs but shifted down an entire tier. I don't know for certain. Clarification would be wonderful.

Boost Run Breakpoints (non LND)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SBgAJ9W6tNNpSzVKCYq_pUnPcWJS7bk1OO_FwNjvW6w/edit#gid=0

A more comprehensive chart for Boost Run. Now including FLY-based. Credit goes to JadeCicada for testing.

It's backwards, FYI, but you can #handleit right?

Normal Running Breakpoints (LND)


19, 22, 25, 28, 32, and 36 are the breakpoints of note for non-boost run LND movement on the ground.

Some old melee builds on CBJP stayed at 25 WLK in order to focus on STR, tunes, HP, revenge tunes, carts, etc.

Thanks to one trend-setter, most Misty Hollows these days have 22 WLK (Mist slows your movement, anyways, so there is no point to excessively pump WLK). That's probably the slowest thing you'll see in modern arena, (save Giganberg, BD1, I guess) so I think these are the only breakpoints that matter.

From Noa's sticky:
 


Normal running Breakpoints (Non-LND)

35 is the last breakpoint for non-boost run, non-LND movement on the ground. I don't know of lower breakpoints.


Normal Walking Breakpoints

Honestly, no one walks in arena. Unless if you're trying to look cool. But I think it's silly to work out a build based off breakpoints in this section.

If you must know, there's this chart from Noa's sticky:
 


Short Boost Breakpoints (LND)

30 is the last breakpoint for walk-based hops for LNDs. LND hoppers usually stop at 32 WLK because it reaches this breakpoint and the second to last non-boost run ground movement (aka normal running) breakpoint.

Noa's chart lets you know of the lower breakpoints:
 



Short Boost Breakpoints
(non-LND)


34 is the last breakpoint for walk-based hops for non-LNDS.

Lower breakpoints from Noa's sticky:
 


Sway Breakpoints (LND)

30, 34, 37 are the last three breakpoints for LND sway.


Sway Breakpoints (non-LND)

39 is the only breakpoint I know for non-LND sway.


Boost Step Breakpoints
Boost Step is unique to Sledge Heim. No idea about breakpoints here. It is WLK-based, though.


Assault Step Breakpoints



34 and 38 are the only breakpoints I know here.

@Winty wrote:
assault step seems to just borrow all the fly breakpoints.

If that is the case, the breakpoints can be found in the next section.
Most people use Assault Step to close the distance quickly, so 34 and 38 seems optimal.


FLY Breakpoints

18, 20, 23, 25, 28, 31, 34, 38

Every type (LND, ART, AIR, SUP) will aerially travel with the same speed given that they all have the same FLY stat.
The difference is the boost gauge. AIRs normally get 10 seconds of boost while ARTs get 4 seconds and both LNDs and SUPs get 3 seconds.
When under the propellent buff (via propeller bits or Orin's song buff with wonderbit out), boost duration is greatly increased. A similar effect occurs in regard to AURA AIRs when they have their AURA active.

On an unrelated note, Air Loop and Accel Roll (and Air Step and Glide Boost) will use up your boost gauge. Same goes for various debuffs.

What is not listed here are the abnormal FLY breakpoints - the ones that are higher than 38 FLY.


While I do not remember the exact FLY of such abnormalities, which include but is not limited to Shaden BS, Seraph Crimrose variants, and transformed stock Flapjack, they are all faster than 38 FLY.

Being set on fire via blazed burner internal, burner weapons, burn traps, burn subweapon tunes, map obstacles, firepillars, etc will also give you free 38 FLY (at the cost of poor turning similar to that of Seraph wings or Shaden BS).

a quote from a very knowledgeable player from CBEN:
 

tl;dr: most ARTs settle for 31 FLY as outlined above while most AIRs go for 38 FLY.
I personally think SUPs can get by with lower FLY, but that's my opinion.


Short Boost Breakpoints (FLY-based)

@Winty wrote:
you will notice, when looking at the chart in noriel's topic, that they do not line up properly until the end.
flyhops break at 26, 29, 33, and 38.

This explains why many builds stick with 28, 31, 34, or 38 FLY, since that hits both the FLY breakpoints and the FLY-based Short Boost breakpoints. Well, perhaps that was the case when people first started building. Now most people don't really consider that aspect.

If you wish to use lower breakpoints, refer to the Short Boost chart.


Float Dash Breakpoints

@Winty wrote:
word from a person is that float dash uses the boost run chart.
word from another person says that the final breakpoint for fly-based floatdash is 30 fly.


Once heard this scales off both WLK and FLY. I usually just go for a FLY breakpoint.

Both are still just reasonable guesses. Further testing at a later date would be great.

For breakpoints, look at the next section.


Glide Boost Breakpoints

No idea about any breakpoints here. Most bots with GB just tune their preferred movement stat to the desired breakpoint and go from there.

Spoiler:
 

Glide Boost / Float Dash chart.

Left is forward, right is sideways.


Slide Boost Breakpoints

Let's be real here. No one uses this.


TGH Breakpoints
I personally don't think TGH is too important to tune. Just make sure you have at least 7 tgh and you're okay, I guess. If it is lower than 7, please consider Crimson Veil tunes.

Quote :
TGH breakpoints for stun damage:
1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 23, 25, 27, 29, 32, 34, 36, 38, 40

TGH breakpoints for damage cap:
1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 25, 26, 28, 29, 31, 32, 33, 35, 36, 38, 39

TGH breakpoints for both:
1, 3, 5, 9, 12, 16, 18, 23, 25, 29, 32, 36, 38


---

Guess that's all. Any feedback would be welcome. I hope this is useful.


Last edited by Relict? on Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:26 pm; edited 35 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:34 pm

nice information :3
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:36 pm

word from a person is that float dash uses the boost run chart.
word from another person says that the final breakpoint for fly-based floatdash is 30 fly.

i have not tested either claim to an extent that satisfies me.
my experience with this is:
i threw tunes and handhelds/ACs at a nemlim and got her to 32/9 and it seems to work pretty well(for dodging things, that is)
swapping stuff around to get 33/12(1 tier up on boostrun chart) showed...a small, but noticable, improvement.
take this as you will.


assault step seems to just borrow all the fly breakpoints.


Quote :
Short Boost (FLY-based)

I think 28 is a breakpoint as mentioned by Winty. Most just abide by FLY breakpoints.

you misunderstood that statement. 28 is actually the number RIGHT BEFORE a fly-based hop breakpoint.
you will notice, when looking at the chart in noriel's topic, that they do not line up properly until the end.
flyhops break at 26, 29, 33, and 38. Yes, flyhops go all the to 38, and they stop at 38. Which is great if you want that max mobility. Otherwise, 34 is a pretty cool place to be.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:37 pm

@Winty wrote:
word from a person is that float dash uses the boost run chart.
word from another person says that the final breakpoint for fly-based floatdash is 30 fly.

i have not tested either claim to an extent that satisfies me.
my experience with this is:
i threw tunes and handhelds/ACs at a nemlim and got her to 32/9 and it seems to work pretty well(for dodging things, that is)
swapping stuff around to get 33/12(1 tier up on boostrun chart) showed...a small, but noticable, improvement.
take this as you will.


assault step seems to just borrow all the fly breakpoints.


Quote :
Short Boost (FLY-based)

I think 28 is a breakpoint as mentioned by Winty. Most just abide by FLY breakpoints.

you misunderstood that statement. 28 is actually the number RIGHT BEFORE a fly-based hop breakpoint.
you will notice, when looking at the chart in noriel's topic, that they do not line up properly until the end.
flyhops break at 26, 29, 33, and 38. Yes, flyhops go all the to 38, and they stop at 38. Which is great if you want that max mobility. Otherwise, 34 is a pretty cool place to be.

Oh, I'm sorry. I will fix now, thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:49 pm

Quote :
Thanks to one trend-setter, most Misty Hollows these days have 22 WLK

Wasn't it 22 walk to hop properly on certain maps in which the ground actually slows you down? I forgot where did I read that. Mind asking the trend-setter himself?

Quote :
...quite a bit of uncertainty concerning breakpoints, I figured that we should make a sticky where we have most of that in one place.

If you're already doing this why not recopile all the data regarding the topic at hand in one place instead of redirecting to Noa's sticky? I mean, it would be better than having the info scattered all over the place.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:59 pm

@Thranduil wrote:
Quote :
Thanks to one trend-setter, most Misty Hollows these days have 22 WLK

Wasn't it 22 walk to hop properly on certain maps in which the ground actually slows you down? I forgot where did I read that. Mind asking the trend-setter himself?

Quote :
...quite a bit of uncertainty concerning breakpoints, I figured that we should make a sticky where we have most of that in one place.

If you're already doing this why not recopile all the data regarding the topic at hand in one place instead of redirecting to Noa's sticky? I mean, it would be better than having the info scattered all over the place.

That might be the case.

From what I can guess, the trend-setter chose 22 WLK because it suited the trend-setter's purpose in terms of mobility and it allowed for 40 tec, weapon tunes, and Crimson Veil.

---

Oh, sure. I can put in the relevant charts in this guide. But I'll make sure to credit Noa's topic.


Last edited by Relict? on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:06 am

this is a really gorgeous guide that i am going to be bookmarking for later reference
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:03 am

Bookmarked, nice work D:
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:55 am

It's really nice too see a new stat breakpoint chart.

using the old one can get pretty confusing and the fact that it might be outdated.

hope to see more updates. #em1 
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:41 am

Glide Boost uses the same stats as Float Dash, which does indeed use Boost Run stats if you want it to. Tuning a Lnd Eve for Orange Tier Boost Run actually makes her similar to a 38 Fly Air unit in terms of Glide Boost speed.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:52 pm

Chocolat wrote:
nice information :3

Thanks.


@fggt wrote:
Bookmarked, nice work D:

D: glad to help


@Alathon wrote:
this is a really gorgeous guide that i am going to be bookmarking for later reference

Thank you. I hope this remains helpful.


@daisuke wrote:
It's really nice too see a new stat breakpoint chart.

using the old one can get pretty confusing and the fact that it might be outdated.

hope to see more updates. #em1 

Mm...the charts and displayed references are still up-to-date as far as I know.

I'm still using the old charts from before, though ;_;

But now you don't have to try to interpret charts!


@ZatohPsi2 wrote:
Glide Boost uses the same stats as Float Dash, which does indeed use Boost Run stats if you want it to. Tuning a Lnd Eve for Orange Tier Boost Run actually makes her similar to a 38 Fly Air unit in terms of Glide Boost speed.

Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:35 am

HI5 Relict.

Thank you!
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:55 am

hey dood donut forget boost step

someone research on boost step
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:11 pm

The hours I spent creating perfect, gay and fat builds.
Wao. I mis dis geym so much. The feels. So deep.

And AKB is now moderator. Kewl. I think Winty and his sexy beard is, too. Gawd I miss being able to play :/
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:35 pm

Updated with a more sensible format.

Updated with Float Dash / Glide Boost breakpoints.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:54 pm

still says glide boost is unique to eve but that's pretty minor.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:13 pm

Oh oops
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:43 am

can someone please tell me what color tier mobility is for?
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:08 am

??????????
we've colored most tiers that use dual stats to make them easier to refer to. Boost run, glide boost, and float dash all use dual stats at high-end. At low end, short boost also uses dual stats but if you get enough of one stat the other stop mattering as long as it isn't zero, so we usually refer to those just by the number where it stops mattering.
single stat scaling(sway, assault step) don't have color tiers, just number breakpoints.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:57 pm

Included larger Boost Run chart (includes fly-based)
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:54 am

thank your for the update.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:33 am

FLY breakpoints section wrote:
When under the propellent buff (via propeller bits or Rone's song buff with wonderbit out), boost duration is greatly increased. A similar effect occurs in regard to AURA AIRs when they have their AURA active.

It's Orin's buff with wonderbit out, not Rone.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:35 am

Ya, u rite. Muh bad.

Rogs suck btw. Not sure if that was u on the shattered continent, tho
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:22 am

With Asphe having air step, I feel it's important for me to ask whether Air Step scales with WLK or FLY (and if going Air Step on a FLY asphe is worth it)
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PostSubject: Re: Stat / movement cart breakpoints   Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:47 am

@Arti wrote:
With Asphe having air step, I feel it's important for me to ask whether Air Step scales with WLK or FLY (and if going Air Step on a FLY asphe is worth it)
walk
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